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Marathon Classic Won By 40-year Old Beats Field of 238
Marathon Classic Won By 40-year Old Beats Field of 238 James P. Henigan, of Medford, MA, After twenty years of trying, wins his first victory over historic 26-mile, 385-year course in Boston athletic club race. Father of five children, athlete crowns long career with laurel wreath sent from Greece and, along the route, mows down veteran Clarence de mar, 7-time winner.
Delirious Crowds Acclaim Republic As King Abdicates
High contrast, rolling, jumpy images Delirious Crowds Acclaim Republic As King Abdicates Cheering, swirling thousands, massed in celebration of new freedom born when natin was engulfed by revolution, hear Alcala Zamora, rebel chief and first provisional president of former monarchy, tell of fall of the bourbons represented by alfonso, and give promise for the future.
King Prajaihipok And Bride Accorded Cordial Reception
High contrast, rolling, jumpy images King Prajadhipok of Thailand And his Bride Queen Rambhai Barni One of the world's three remaining absolute monarchs, highly cultured ruler of almost 12,000,000 persons is met at station by crowd of villagers who welcome him and his queen to America, whither he comes for an eye operation in the effort to avoid blindness.
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(17:15:57) The CHAIRMAN. I've just asked Senator DAmato if I could ask one clarifying question here on your point. Maybe I didn't get this right, but do I understand that the information on the meetings or. the criminal referrals, that you got that information, and it was given by the White House to The Washing-ton Post? Is that how they got it, or did I misunderstand? Mr. PODESTA. Excuse me? No, I think the details of the meeting-I don't think The Post knew about the meeting on the 29th, They were pursuing this meeting issue, and I think we The CHAIRMAN. See Mr. PODESTA. We raised-we gave them that information that there was a meeting on the 29th between Nussbaum, Hanson and The CHAIRMAN. But you realize that puts us in a position where it was given to The Washington Post before it was given to this Committee which had asked for it. Mr. PODESTA. Senator-Mr. Chairman, I actually thought that the reverse sequence had happened, That was my understanding. The CHAIRMAN. You thought it had been. Mr. PODESTA. I raised it with Mr. Altman. Mr. Altman was pursuing the matter. I was informed that you had been sent the letter. I assumed you knew all this, frankly. The CHAIRMAN. But you now know that was not the case. It was in the other sequence. Senator Bennett. Senator BENNETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Podesta, I have a copy of some handwritten notes from the White House attributed to Dee Dee Myers. She says "John, Neil, Cliff, met to review Roger's testimony and make sure we're accurate. John P. then talked to Roger, told him that he had misspoken. Could be misleading." Do you remember talking to Roger Altman about that? Mr. PODESTA- I described my conversation with Mr. Altman. Senator BENNETT. Is that the conversation she's referring to? Mr. PODESTA. Yes. I think she's referring to my conversation on March 1st between myself and Mr. Altman. Senator BENNETT. Did you tell him what you thought could be misleading? Mr. PODESTA. I have-go back at it one more time. I think the thing we thought was misleading--could be misleading-I don't know that I used that word with Dee Dee and I don't think I used it with Mr. Altman, but I'll describe the conversation. I had a conversation about the fall meetings, I think the answers, not to my knowledge, could be fairly viewed by this Committee as misleading, and we wanted to correct it. Senator BENNETT. And of course, "misleading" is a very serious verb. You say you don't think you used it with her but it showed up in her notes. 383 Mr. PODESTA. I'm just saying I have no recollection of using that with Ms. Myers. There were six people in the meeting, so someone else could have conceivably characterized it that way. Senator BENNETT. We may return to that. Let me go to-just a moment. Well, I'll perhaps return to that on another round, Did any of you watch this thing until we closed last night? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No, sir. Senator BENNETT. So you missed the Chairman's closing speech. I'd like to refer to the Chairman's closing speech because it goes to an issue that you were discussing with Senator Gramm. Senator Gramm sometimes puts things in very colorful language and he talked about this being like the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and nobody can remember a shot being fired. But the key point that the Chairman emphasized last night is that it happened. That is, that Roger Altman went into the White House, determined to recuse himself, having been instructed-not instructed, having been advised to recuse himself by the General Counsel of his Department, having talked with the Secretary of his Department, his boss who himself now cannot remember the advice, but others testified that Secretary Bentsen advised him to recuse himself. And Secretary Bentsen said he can't contradict that, he just doesn't recall, went into the White House with that kind of background, came out of the White House saying that he would consider it, and in less than 24 hours went back to the White House with a formal meeting, called at his request so he can report to senior officials of the White House that he has changed his mind. Something happened. Maybe no one can remember, but something happened.
Honor Dag Hammarskjold On Anniversary of Death
Honor Dag Hammarskjold On Anniversary of Death The United Nations honors the memory of the martyr to the cause of peace. Ambassador Adlai Stevenson and other dignitaries unveil a plaque in honor of the Secretary-General who was killed while on a peace mission to the Congo. Two security guards, stand in front of memorial. CU of collage of pictures on board. Photographers take pictures, cameras flashing. Plaque unveiled. Pan down plaque for Count Folke Bernadotte. People stand behind desk area. Two nuns ? at counter. Commemorative stamps, issued in his honor. People buying stamps. Man stamping stamps.
Relief Pushed For Earthquake Survivors
Relief Pushed For Earthquake Survivors The aftermath of one of the worst disasters in modern times. Heroic relief work is underway in Iran to take care of more than 100,000 homeless in the wake of an earthquake that killed more than 10,000 persons. Aerial of disaster, aftermath of earthquake. POV from plane. Shah of Iran Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in military uniform. Man removing rubble. Man kneels to pray.
Sports: Pro Football Kick-Off
Sports: Pro Football Kick-Off The Baltimore Colts come from behind to defeat the Los Angeles Rams, 30 to 27, at Baltimore. Johnny Unitas stars as the Colts get a break in the final seconds as the Rams fumble and the Colts recover to score and win. Crowded stadium. Crowd shot, people clapping and rise up from their seats, standing ovation. Player makes great leaping catch in end zone.
United Nations Convenes: New Nations Join Assembly
United Nations Convenes: New Nations Join Assembly The General Assembly of the United Nations begins its 17th session with delegations from four new member nations being seated. Mr. Zafrulla Khan is elected President for the session. Pan down United Nations Building. Low angle shot, flags of nations. Adlai Stevenson with members. Members voting. Mr. Khan walking up and taking seat. WS interior of United Nations.
Ted Kennedy Wins: Swamps Rival in Massachusetts Primary
Ted Kennedy Wins: Swamps Rival in Massachusetts Primary National attention is focused on a Senatorial contest in Massachusetts as Edward M. Kennedy, younger brother of the President, swamps Edward J. McCormack in the Democratic primary. He will face George Cabot Lodge who wins the Republican primary. George Cabot Lodge with wife? walking up to building, polling place. Mr. and Mrs. Lodge registering to vote ? Mr. and Mrs. Edward Kennedy ? Crowd of people outside, behind police barricades. The President and Mrs. Kennedy enter and exit separate voting booths.
Space Progess: More Astronauts & New Devices
Space Progress: More Astronauts & New Devices A new space team for the moon shot is introduced: Nine who will man the Gemini and Apollo craft that are designed for the path that leads to the moon. New devices are unveiled, too -- mock-ups of the Gemini and a space station designed to service it, and the X-20, a delta-winged plane that will be launched by Titan rockets and will land under pilot guidance. Animated graphics of shuttles lifting off and traveling into outer space. WS of table with men seated. Neil Armstrong, Frank Borman, Charles Conrad, James Lovell, James McDivitt, Elliot See, Thomas Stafford, Edward White and John Young. Gemini craft. Rubberized ring hub ? Man in astronaut suit entering hub? Man in astronaut suit attempting to lay down on collapsible bed? U.S. Air Force X-20 "Dyna-Soar" is revealed.
Argentine Head Holds Control in Army Feud
Argentine Head Holds Control in Army Feud A week-long clash between opposition forces in the Argentinean Army comes to a climax as troops move on the capital. President Guido throws his lot in with the "rebel" forces and peace prevails with the promise of early election. Military, tank driving down street, soldiers carrying machine guns walk along streets. Military take over capitol. CU soldier wearing helmet. Men running towards camera, seek shelter ? Soldiers ride on military tank, past camera and down street. President Guido ?
Queen Opens Dutch Parliament
Queen Opens Dutch Parliament With royal pomp the Queen and her three daughters ride to the Hall of the Knights to open the States-General, the Parliament of The Netherlands. Queen in Royal Gold Coach. Crowd, few people holding umbrellas. Queen and royal daughters ride in open carriage, escorted by guards. Ext building that looks like church. Interior of parliament, members seated. Queen seated on throne, giving speech (no nat sound). Daughters seated beside her. Parliament members rise to their feet, and give three cheers to the Queen.
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(17:30:16) Senator BOXER. All right. Now, I want to tell you why this is SO important because the picture that is being painted over here about this White House is that the wagon circled around this man, made him sweat. He thought a lot about this, he came in ready to recuse himself although he said he did not state that, and no one that. I know of said that he stated he planned to recuse himself. And then he was struck with guilt, collapsed sometime during the night, got up the next morning, made a call to either you or Maggie Williams-that's not clear at this time-asked that a meeting be set up. And what we know now about that so-called meeting is that peo- ple were standing around in, I think Maggie Williams office; is that correct, Mr. Ickes, as you remember it? Mr. ICKES. I think there are different recollections as to when that meeting took place. I recall having a very brief conversation with Mr, Altman-and I think Ms. Williams was present. I don't recall anyone else being present-in which Mr. Altman informed the two of us, assuming Ms. Williams was there and I think she was, that he had decided not to recuse himself It was a very short, it was less than a minute, Senator Boxer, as far as I recall. Senator BOXER. I must talk about this meeting because we're trying to piece this together. Mr. ICKES. I understand. Senator BOXER. And I appreciate your helping us do it. You remember the meeting to be a minute, someone else said 10 and someone else said 30 seconds. Do you remember-this is important. If you have a picture in your mind whether people were sitting down at that meeting, were people standing, do you have a recollection of that? Mr. ICKES. My recollection, Senator Boxer, and I could be wrong on this, but my best recollection is that that meeting, so-called meeting, the three of us were standing up. I recall it being in or very near Ms. Williams' West Wing office on the second floor. I re- call only the three of us there, at least in that conversation. And as I said, the three of us were standing and Mr. Altman told us that lie, in a very matter of fact way, he decided that he was not going to recuse himself. Senator BOXER. OK. So Mr. Altman did not, to the best of your memory, say I've got great news for you, Harold, and I want you to request and tell the President. I have wonderful news for YOU? Maggie, I am not recusing myself. Mr. ICKES. I have no recollection of that whatsoever. Senator BOXER, He didn't bring a bottle of champagne and say let's go out and celebrate, I'm staying on the case? Mr. ICKES. No, he did not. It was a very matter of fact, I would say less than a minute conversation and there was no follow UP conversation about it that I recall whatsoever. Senator BOXER. How did you respond to him at that time when he made that Mr. ICKES. I'm not even sure I responded. I don't recall making any response because I don't think a response was warrant 387 was up to him,, he made a decision, he came and informed us. As far as I was concerned, that was it. Senator BOXER. All right. I want to ask you, Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mr. Ickes, about the call regarding Jay Stephens. And let me start by noting, Mr. Stephanopoulos, that according to an article that appeared in The Post on April 2, 1994, no less than Marlin Fitzwater, Press Secretary to former President Bush, a leading Republican in the country, defended your telephone manner. Mr. Fitzwater said that your reaction to the hiring of Mr. Stephens was "pretty normal." Fitzwater went on: I have to admit that if you stand in George Stephanopoulos' shoes, It would be a little difficult not to be surprised and outraged by that appointment, The same article quotes Congressman Jim Leach, the Iowa Republican who is leading the Whitewater charge over on the other side. He characterizes your call as "pretty natural." Now, on these calls, did the President direct either of you to make those calls or contacts? I'd ask each of you that question. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Absolutely not, Senator BOXER. Mr. Ickes? Mr. ICKES. No. Senator BOXER. To your knowledge, did the President have prior knowledge of your contacts? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No. Mr. ICKES. No. Senator BOXER. The Independent Counsel stated "the evidence is insufficient to establish that anyone within the White House or the Department of Treasury acted with the intent to corruptly influence an RTC investigation." Do you have knowledge or information that would contradict that conclusion, Mr. Lindsey? Mr. LINDSEY. No, ma'am. Senator BOXER. Mr. Podesta? Mr. PODESTA. No. Senator BOXER. Mr. Stephanopoulos? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No. Senator BOXER. Mr. Ickes? Mr. ICKES. No. Senator BOXER. Well, I don't have any further questions, Mr. Chairman. I just feel that the holy book of these hearings from some of my colleagues' point of view is this Josh Steiner diary, and I worry a lot about that.
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(17:35:16) That young man was not at that meeting, and so if we are going to use hearsay for some people to make a case that this White House exerted terrible pressure on Mr. Altman, I think it's important that we continue to get to the bottom of it. And from what I know from you Mr. Ickes, from Maggie Williams today and I'm going to ask Mr. Nussbaum, I think there were questions raised about this recusal issue and I'm sure it might have been something that was uncomfortable, but I do not see intense pressure being exerted. And I want to ask you this last time, would you say that intense pressure was in fact applied to Mr. Altman on the recusal issue by anyone in the White House? 388 Mr. ICKES. In -my view, no pressure was applied and Mr. Altman is a very sophisticated person who has served in Washington before. He, in my view, is not a person you push around. Senator BOXER. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Boxer. We are now coming down the home stretch on a vote on the Senate Floor. I'm going to, in a moment, put the Committee into recess and give the witnesses a chance to refresh themselves. I've said to Senator Kerry, who left early to vote, that when he comes back that he will start and resume the hearing and that we'll rotate at that point to the next Republican. Senator SARBANES. Could we just clarify one thing? The CHAIRMAN. Of course. Senator SARBANES. When Mr. Bennett was questioning Mr. Ickes about Nussbaum's excitable disposition, and Mr. Ickes said well his disposition is generally excitable, and therefore I think was making the point that he was not excited beyond that and then Mr. Stephanopoulos nodded and Mr. Bennett said well, I take that to mean a yes. The question is whether the nod was a yes to the question as to whether Nussbaum was excited or the nod was a yes to the Ickes observation that Nussbaum's general disposition is an excitable one. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I think it was a nod to the Ickes observation, sir. Senator SARBANES. It was a nod to the Ickes observation. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes, sir. Senator SARBANES. So you were in effect Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I was not at the meeting, I couldn't respond to that. Mr. ICKES. But Senator Sarbanes, I wanted to go back in a clarify Senator Bennett's-when he said he took that as a ye was a little disconcerted by that and what Id said before and what I say now is that Mr. Nussbaum's demeanor was his regular run of the mill, everyday demeanor. It was not anything in excess of what one who has worked with Mr. Nussbaum knows him to be. He's a very Senator SARBANES. That's how I understood your answer. And you were making the point that his usual demeanor is what other people would regard as excitable. Mr. ICKES. I think compared to myself or Mr. Stephanopoulos, he works at a higher level. Senator SARBANES. We're certainly guaranteeing that when he appears before us, he'll be quite excitable. The CHAIRMAN. He'll have to be now. When he comes in this afternoon, if he's not excitable, then he's got a problem. Senator SARBANES. I was concerned because Mr. Bennett took a nodding by Mr. Stephanopoulos and he says well, I take that to be a yes and the question was what was Mr. Stephanopoulos nodding yes to. Your observation that Nussbaum's usual demeanor is an ex- citable one or Mr. Bennett's question that Nussbaum was excited in the sense beyond the ordinary I take it. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I was nodding to Mr. Ickes. Mr. ICKES. He was not beyond the ordinary, Senator. 389 The CHAIRMAN. But if he's perpetually excited how would we know when he was beyond the norm? What would he do then? Does he break furniture, or what happens? Anyway you can answer that later. The Committee stands in recess for the duration of the vote. (17:39:22) [Recess.] (17:39:30) Commentary of hearing hosts DON BODE and NINA TOTENBERG from tv studio, they also talk to J. WILLIAM CADINHA Majority Counsel
Sports: This Will Bowl You Over
Sports: This Will Bowl You Over A trickster who never fails to draw a crowd is Andy Varipapa, an artist on the alleys who has enough tricks to pin other bowlers to duck pins. Dallas kids eat it up. Older man bowling, perfect strike. Variety of bowling ball tricks, stunts. Trick shot artist. CU Andy Varipapa smiling.
Leaping Pole Contest
Leaping Pole Contest Necessity is the mother of sport --- in The Netherlands, that is. They hold an annual leaping-pole contest over a ditch, a sport that was once a necessity in getting from field to field on the farm. Various attempts, funny. Boy runs and jumps on pole, makes it half way across water, and pole turns making him fall sideways into the water. Another attempt when a man, loses his grip and slides down the pole into the water. Crowd shots, laughing, also people pop up out of seats to get a better look.
WAA March
WAA March The depression was still with us. Thousands of jobless marched on Washington to demand sufficient government-made jobs. People gathered on cots in park. Women sew WAA banners (Workers Alliance of America). Black (African American) marchers carry sign : "Put the Schwellenbach - Allen Bill into Effect". Marchers protest cutbacks by the WPA.
De Gaulle's Historic Visit
De Gaulle's Historic Visit President Charles De Gaulle arrives in Bonn to begin the first State visit to Germany by a French Chief of State in modern times. His main discussion with Chancellor Adenauer will pivot around political union with other European countries. Cameraman with telephoto lens. CU German Flag. De Gaulle shaking hands with Chancellor Adenauer.
The House Of Dior Presents....
The House Of Dior Presents.... The Fall flowers that will brighten Autumn will not outshine the new Paris fashions, a typical cross-section of which is displayed. It's the lean, narrow look that's in the stars. Women models wearing coats, wool and fur trimmed. Most of the models wear gloves and hats. Side view of model smoking, backs out of frame to see three models wearing coats. Basic white and black dresses, with velvet trim. Women model elegant evening gowns, jewelry.
British Air Show Thriller
British Air Show Thriller The Farnborough Air Show --- Britain's showcase for new aircraft --- displays the latest from the drawing boards: some radical planes that may reshape aviation transport. Men seated in crowd, looking up at sky. Aircraft with long nose, P-1127 in flight, and makes a vertical landing. Helicopter type invention. Transport plane, troop carrier. INT view aboard aircraft with paratroopers ready to jump. Side view of plane, as paratroopers, freefall with flares attached to their ankles. Another great interior shot as the skydivers jump from the plane. CU boy looking up to the sky. Parachute opens. Flares on ground. Parachutes float to the ground. Fighter planes in formation. Precision flying. CU fighter pilot in cockpit, maple leaf on helmet ? CU older woman, wearing sunglasses looking up to the sky. Fighter pilots, vapor trails. Acrobatic flying.
She's De-Lovely!
She's De-Lovely!: Ohio Lass Crowned New "Miss America" There's a parade of 54 pulchritudinous peaches in the finals for the title of "Miss America" at Atlantic City. 54 good reasons to see America first! The winner is Jacquelyn Jeanne Mayer, 20, a Northwestern University co-ed who makes good. WS stage with contestants parading the catwalk. Pan judges watching contestants. Contestants seated with floral bouquets, gentlemen escorts stand behind them wearing tuxedos. Judges marking sheets. Miss Ohio is selected and covers her face. Photographers. Winner is crowned and kissed on cheek. Miss America 1963 walks along stage wearing crown, cape and carrying rose bouquet. Next day, Ms. Mayer meets press photographers on a city rooftop. Miss America wearing crown, smiling, blows kiss to the camera wearing white gloves.
DeGaulle Ends German Visit
DeGaulle Ends German Visit The French leader and Chancellor Adenauer conclude a series of talks on Franco-German unity that will probably influence deeply the current talks of British Commonwealth partners on Britain's entry into the European Common Market. De Gaulle and Adenauer shake hands with guests at state dinner. Pan down Cathedral, men gathered outside. De Gaulle exits cathedral with religious clergy. CU sign : pedestrian crossing.
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(17:51:24) Hearings coverage resumes: Senator ROTH. I would just point out that the Nussbaum memorandum does go on to state, and I quote, "there is generally no justification for any White House involvement in particular adjudicative or rulemaking proceedings," and investigative proceedings are 390 covered as well. Then it points out that, regarding pending criminal and civil matters, the memorandum states "it undermines the administration of justice if the White House even appears to be interfering in such cases." Do you agree with that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I certainly follow the memo and I agree with the memo, sir. I do believe, sir, and maybe I'm mistaken , but I do believe in the memo there are certain defined exceptions for getting information or especially for dealing with press matters, Still it is wise and it is-we are supposed to talk with the Counsel first, but I believe there is some exemption for information and press matters. If I'm mistaken, I stand to be corrected. Senator ROTH. Insofar as I am aware, there are no exceptions for press purposes. The memorandum, as a matter of fact, is quite sweeping in its language, and says specifically that in cases involving investigative, adjudicative or regulatory matters that the Office of White House Counsel should be or must be contacted. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I agree with that, sir, and it certainly was an oversight on my part not to contact the Counsel's Office. Senator ROTH. Was any effort made with this memorandum, to make sure that all White House personnel were familiar with the memorandum and its requirements? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. It had been circulated. Senator ROTH. It had been circulated. Was any effort given to actually educate people as to what the memorandum required? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I believe at the time it probably was, sir. As I said, this was a year later. There's no excuse, I grant you. It was an oversight on my part not to contact the Counsel and that was a mistake. Senator ROTH. Mr. Ickes, do you recall that you and Mr. Stephanopoulos had this phone conversation with Mr. Altman? Mr. ICKES. Yes. Senator ROTH. And are or were you familiar with Mr. Nussbaum's memorandum prohibiting such contact? Mr. ICKES. I'm generally familiar, yes. Senator ROTH. What do you mean by "generally"? Mr. ICKES. Well, I couldn't give you word by word, Senator, but I have read the memorandum, and I'm familiar with the thrust of the memorandum. Senator ROTH. Did you seek approval from the White House Counsel? Mr. ICKES. No, I did not. I associate myself with Mr. Stephanopoulos' remarks in that regard but I would also point out that the purpose of that, of the phone call that we made was to ver- ify whether or not Mr, Altman had in fact recused himself. We were taking press calls on that, and felt that we really needed to know so we could respond accurately and quickly to the press, but again I associate myself with Mr. Stephanopoulos' remarks. We should have contacted the Counsel's Office. Senator ROTH. One of the conversations at least, Mr. Stephanopoulos, was to determine how Mr. Stephens was hired and that was, I believe, not public information at that time. 391 Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I'm not certain that's true, sir. It certainly is information that would be provided to the public. I assume it was done by an open and independent board. Senator ROTH. Let me ask you, Mr. Ickes, do you agree that that telephone conversation was in conflict with the requirements of the ethics memorandum?
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(18:05:22) The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Ickes, before you respond and again excuse me for interrupting and I say to my friend from North Carolina, that particular memo, which was the last document to come to us, really falls into two parts. There is a part that in effect is within the scope of our inquiry and then there is a part that is not. I think it's appropriate to ask questions about the part that's within the scope of the inquiry, but I think we run into an issue of getting beyond that and so I would just say to Mr. Ickes that you should restrict your response to the part of the memo that's within the scope of this charter that we have. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. ICKES. Mr. Chairman, I would-I'm somewhat at a disadvantage because I don't have the document in front of me. It's my understanding- The CHAIRMAN. We're going to send it out to you and mark it out so that we're true to our mission here. And let's suspend the clock for a minute so that your time is not running while we do this and we'll just hold things in place until such time as you have a chance to do this. You better take it down and explain it. I appreciate Senator FAIRCLOTH. I understand. The CHAIRMAN [continuing]. The forbearance here. [Pause.] And if there's any confusion, Mr. Ickes, if you're not exactly clear, ask for guidance and I'll see that you have the guidance, So, Senator Faircloth, we'll restore that time and do you want to pose the question again or leave it as it sits and let Mr. Ickes answer within the scope of what Senator FAIRCLOTH. I'll leave it as it sits if he remembers it and answer within the scope that's within the bounds of what we're doing. The CHAIRMAN. Fair enough. Senator FAIRCLOTH. If he doesn't remember it, I'll read it again. Mr. ICKES. Senator, just so the record is clear, I've been handed three pieces of paper. As I understand it there were many more pieces of paper involved in this document or set of documents. The first one is a memorandum to the First Lady from Harold Ickes, dated 1 March 1994. I've been informed by Counsel that the first paragraph of that two-paragraph memorandum or actually threeparagraph memorandum is redacted, that the only one that is within the scope of this hearing is the second one. And then there is I have two other pieces of paper in front of me which apparently are part of a memorandum that I gather was attached to the socalled transmittal memorandum of which only a limited amount of those two pages are within the scope. 395 So based on that, could I trouble you to ask your question again? I'm sorry. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Well, my question is why would the White House staff send Hillary Clinton a memo about something that happened before she was First Lady and about which the White House and she as an individual says nothing is wrong, why would you be sending her such a memo? Mr. ICKES. Primarily informative, Senator. This was a matter that was being discussed, if not daily certainly very frequently, in the press. Her relationship with Rose Law Firm, as you've pointed out, was well known and it was my understanding that two of the memorandum included in this discussed the relationship of the FDIC as well as the RTC to the Rose Law Firm. It was merely being sent to her as a matter of information and interest. Senator FAIRCLOTH. But she had a pretty intense interest in what was going on here, isn't that correct? Mr. ICKES. Certainly-she certainly in my view had an interest because it involved her name and it involved her prior law firm. I would like to say for the record however, Senator, that it is not at all clear to me that this memorandum, that is the transmittal memorandum which I described earlier was in fact sent.