August 4, 1994 - Part 8
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(17:35:16) That young man was not at that meeting, and so if we are going to use hearsay for some people to make a case that this White House exerted terrible pressure on Mr. Altman, I think it's important that we continue to get to the bottom of it. And from what I know from you Mr. Ickes, from Maggie Williams today and I'm going to ask Mr. Nussbaum, I think there were questions raised about this recusal issue and I'm sure it might have been something that was uncomfortable, but I do not see intense pressure being exerted. And I want to ask you this last time, would you say that intense pressure was in fact applied to Mr. Altman on the recusal issue by anyone in the White House? 388 Mr. ICKES. In -my view, no pressure was applied and Mr. Altman is a very sophisticated person who has served in Washington before. He, in my view, is not a person you push around. Senator BOXER. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Boxer. We are now coming down the home stretch on a vote on the Senate Floor. I'm going to, in a moment, put the Committee into recess and give the witnesses a chance to refresh themselves. I've said to Senator Kerry, who left early to vote, that when he comes back that he will start and resume the hearing and that we'll rotate at that point to the next Republican. Senator SARBANES. Could we just clarify one thing? The CHAIRMAN. Of course. Senator SARBANES. When Mr. Bennett was questioning Mr. Ickes about Nussbaum's excitable disposition, and Mr. Ickes said well his disposition is generally excitable, and therefore I think was making the point that he was not excited beyond that and then Mr. Stephanopoulos nodded and Mr. Bennett said well, I take that to mean a yes. The question is whether the nod was a yes to the question as to whether Nussbaum was excited or the nod was a yes to the Ickes observation that Nussbaum's general disposition is an excitable one. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I think it was a nod to the Ickes observation, sir. Senator SARBANES. It was a nod to the Ickes observation. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes, sir. Senator SARBANES. So you were in effect Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I was not at the meeting, I couldn't respond to that. Mr. ICKES. But Senator Sarbanes, I wanted to go back in a clarify Senator Bennett's-when he said he took that as a ye was a little disconcerted by that and what Id said before and what I say now is that Mr. Nussbaum's demeanor was his regular run of the mill, everyday demeanor. It was not anything in excess of what one who has worked with Mr. Nussbaum knows him to be. He's a very Senator SARBANES. That's how I understood your answer. And you were making the point that his usual demeanor is what other people would regard as excitable. Mr. ICKES. I think compared to myself or Mr. Stephanopoulos, he works at a higher level. Senator SARBANES. We're certainly guaranteeing that when he appears before us, he'll be quite excitable. The CHAIRMAN. He'll have to be now. When he comes in this afternoon, if he's not excitable, then he's got a problem. Senator SARBANES. I was concerned because Mr. Bennett took a nodding by Mr. Stephanopoulos and he says well, I take that to be a yes and the question was what was Mr. Stephanopoulos nodding yes to. Your observation that Nussbaum's usual demeanor is an ex- citable one or Mr. Bennett's question that Nussbaum was excited in the sense beyond the ordinary I take it. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I was nodding to Mr. Ickes. Mr. ICKES. He was not beyond the ordinary, Senator. 389 The CHAIRMAN. But if he's perpetually excited how would we know when he was beyond the norm? What would he do then? Does he break furniture, or what happens? Anyway you can answer that later. The Committee stands in recess for the duration of the vote. (17:39:22) [Recess.] (17:39:30) Commentary of hearing hosts DON BODE and NINA TOTENBERG from tv studio, they also talk to J. WILLIAM CADINHA Majority Counsel