August 4, 1994 - Part 8
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(17:30:16) Senator BOXER. All right. Now, I want to tell you why this is SO important because the picture that is being painted over here about this White House is that the wagon circled around this man, made him sweat. He thought a lot about this, he came in ready to recuse himself although he said he did not state that, and no one that. I know of said that he stated he planned to recuse himself. And then he was struck with guilt, collapsed sometime during the night, got up the next morning, made a call to either you or Maggie Williams-that's not clear at this time-asked that a meeting be set up. And what we know now about that so-called meeting is that peo- ple were standing around in, I think Maggie Williams office; is that correct, Mr. Ickes, as you remember it? Mr. ICKES. I think there are different recollections as to when that meeting took place. I recall having a very brief conversation with Mr, Altman-and I think Ms. Williams was present. I don't recall anyone else being present-in which Mr. Altman informed the two of us, assuming Ms. Williams was there and I think she was, that he had decided not to recuse himself It was a very short, it was less than a minute, Senator Boxer, as far as I recall. Senator BOXER. I must talk about this meeting because we're trying to piece this together. Mr. ICKES. I understand. Senator BOXER. And I appreciate your helping us do it. You remember the meeting to be a minute, someone else said 10 and someone else said 30 seconds. Do you remember-this is important. If you have a picture in your mind whether people were sitting down at that meeting, were people standing, do you have a recollection of that? Mr. ICKES. My recollection, Senator Boxer, and I could be wrong on this, but my best recollection is that that meeting, so-called meeting, the three of us were standing up. I recall it being in or very near Ms. Williams' West Wing office on the second floor. I re- call only the three of us there, at least in that conversation. And as I said, the three of us were standing and Mr. Altman told us that lie, in a very matter of fact way, he decided that he was not going to recuse himself. Senator BOXER. OK. So Mr. Altman did not, to the best of your memory, say I've got great news for you, Harold, and I want you to request and tell the President. I have wonderful news for YOU? Maggie, I am not recusing myself. Mr. ICKES. I have no recollection of that whatsoever. Senator BOXER, He didn't bring a bottle of champagne and say let's go out and celebrate, I'm staying on the case? Mr. ICKES. No, he did not. It was a very matter of fact, I would say less than a minute conversation and there was no follow UP conversation about it that I recall whatsoever. Senator BOXER. How did you respond to him at that time when he made that Mr. ICKES. I'm not even sure I responded. I don't recall making any response because I don't think a response was warrant 387 was up to him,, he made a decision, he came and informed us. As far as I was concerned, that was it. Senator BOXER. All right. I want to ask you, Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mr. Ickes, about the call regarding Jay Stephens. And let me start by noting, Mr. Stephanopoulos, that according to an article that appeared in The Post on April 2, 1994, no less than Marlin Fitzwater, Press Secretary to former President Bush, a leading Republican in the country, defended your telephone manner. Mr. Fitzwater said that your reaction to the hiring of Mr. Stephens was "pretty normal." Fitzwater went on: I have to admit that if you stand in George Stephanopoulos' shoes, It would be a little difficult not to be surprised and outraged by that appointment, The same article quotes Congressman Jim Leach, the Iowa Republican who is leading the Whitewater charge over on the other side. He characterizes your call as "pretty natural." Now, on these calls, did the President direct either of you to make those calls or contacts? I'd ask each of you that question. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Absolutely not, Senator BOXER. Mr. Ickes? Mr. ICKES. No. Senator BOXER. To your knowledge, did the President have prior knowledge of your contacts? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No. Mr. ICKES. No. Senator BOXER. The Independent Counsel stated "the evidence is insufficient to establish that anyone within the White House or the Department of Treasury acted with the intent to corruptly influence an RTC investigation." Do you have knowledge or information that would contradict that conclusion, Mr. Lindsey? Mr. LINDSEY. No, ma'am. Senator BOXER. Mr. Podesta? Mr. PODESTA. No. Senator BOXER. Mr. Stephanopoulos? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No. Senator BOXER. Mr. Ickes? Mr. ICKES. No. Senator BOXER. Well, I don't have any further questions, Mr. Chairman. I just feel that the holy book of these hearings from some of my colleagues' point of view is this Josh Steiner diary, and I worry a lot about that.