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August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(13:05:45) Mr. FOREMAN. I've seen information recently as all of the hearings and things are join& on. I can tell you in February, while we were working on the legal analysis, I knew of no such views. Senator MURRAY. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Let me say we have time, I think, just before our break to accomodate the two Senators that have not yet asked questions. Senator DODD. What your plans would be then is to terminate with this plan or can those of us who have some different points come back to this panel? 369 The CHAIRMAN. Let me seek guidance from the Committee. flow many Members have additional questions for any of the members of this panel? Senator Dodd and Senator Shelby. Anybody else on this side? I will have some additional questions. Senator DAmato, Senator Faircloth, Senator Roth, Senator Hatch, and then there are some Members that aren't here at the moment. So when we finish with Senator Hatch and Senator Sarbanes, well go into the recess until 2:15 p.m. We'll come back and resume at that time. We'll stay with this panel until every Senator that wishes to ask questions has had the chance to do so, proceeding in the same fashion, and then we'll dismiss this panel. And at at point, then, we'll go to Mr. Altman. So that will be our order. Senator Hatch. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ORRIN G. HATCH Senator HATCH. Thanks, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Steiner, after Roger returned from the February 2 meeting at the White House, he stopped by your office and told you that Bernard Nussbaum, the White House Counsel, did not agree with Mr. Altman's plans to recuse himself from the Madison Guaranty matter; is that right? I think you testified to that. Mr. STEINER. He said that Mr. Nussbaum, I believe, had made strong arguments as to why recusal was not the best course of action. Senator HATCH. Mr. Altman also told you Mr. Nussbaum believed that the Madison Guaranty matter would be handled more fairly if Mr. Altman remained involved; is that right? Mr. STEINER. I believe he said to me that Mr. Nussbaum's belief was that the RTC bad a reputation as being a partisan institution, and that be was eager to ensure that this investigation be carried out in a completely impartial, nonpartisan fashion. Senator HATCH. You understood from Mr. Altman that Mr. Nussbaum thought that the RTC might well be too tough in the Madison Guaranty case if Mr. Altman were involved. Mr. STEINER. I do not recall Senator HATCH. Were not involved. Excuse me. Mr. STEINER. I do not recall Mr. Altman ever saying that to me, no. Senator HATCH. Do you recall Mr. Altman stating that Mr. Nussbaum was particularly concerned that a new RTC General Counsel, Ellen Kulka, was tough and tenacious? Mr. STEINER. I have no recollection of that, no. Senator HATCH. Mr. Steiner, let me jump ahead to the week of February 14. You first learned sometime during this week that the RTC had hired Jay Stephens and his law firm Pillsbury, Madison & Sutro, as Outside Counsel in the Madison Guaranty case; right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct, Senator. Senator HATCH. And you learned this in a telephone call from the White House; is that right? Mr. STEINER. From either Mr. Podesta or Mr. Stern, I believe. Senator HATCH. From either Podesta or Todd Stern. John Podesta was the Assistant to the President at that time; right, and Todd Stem worked with Mr. Podesta? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. 370 Senator HATCH. Now, you understood at the time that Mr. Podesta, was to use your terms, "the point of contact" at the White House for all Whitewater-related matters; right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. Do you remember now, which one called you? Mr. STEINER. No, I do not. Senator HATCH. Either Mr. Podesta or Mr. Stern was very upset at the time that the RTC had hired Jay Stephens; is that right? Mr. STEINER. I actually do not recall them speaking in particularly upset tones. I recall them asking me a question. Senator HATCH. They were not happy with it. Mr. STEINER. No, they were not. Senator HATCH. And you were also shocked by the news, as I understand it. Mr. STEINER. I was certainly surprised, Senator. Senator HATCH. And either Podesta or Stern asked you to inquire how Jay Stephens had been hired? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. You agreed to do so? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. You determined from Jean Hanson or her assistant, Robin Gross, that Jay Stephens had been hired through ordinary RTC hiring procedures? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. You also learned that Ellen Kulka was responsible for- the decision to hire Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEINER. I do not recall learning that, no, Senator. Senator Hatch. Let me focus on the events of Fe bruary 25 Let me just first ask you to read aloud the portion of your diary beginning with the phrase "after Howell Raines" and ending with 'Xincredibly stupid and improper." If you could read that for us. Mr. STEINER. After Howell Raines from The New York Times called to say they were going to write a brutal editorial, Mr. Altman decided to recuse himself Do you want me to read verbatim?
Stevenson Rites: Presidential Honors for Noted Statesman
Stevenson Rites: Presidential Honors for Noted Statesman. Thousands paid their final respects to the noted U.S. statesman at the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C. A memorial service, attended by President & Mrs. Johnson & Vice-President Humphrey, concluded the capital's tribute to the late Ambassador to the United Nations. His coffin was then removed to Illinois for a state tribute in Springfield. Burial took place in the family plot in Bloomington. Exterior of National Cathedral. Tilting LS National Cathedral, crowd gathered on grounds. TLSs American flag draped over casket in cathedral. High angle TLSs President LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON (LBJ), First Lady LADY BIRD JOHNSON, being escorted to seats beside Vice-President HUBERT H. HUMPHREY. Ls crowd in balcony, shafts of light beaming through stained glass windows. H/a TLS two Marines carrying flag-draped coffin through church. TLS facade of National Cathedral. TLSs uniformed U.S. military men of all five branches carrying coffin from church, into hearse.
Vietnam Revisited: McNamara and Lodge Start New Study
Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara & Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. reappointed Ambassador to Vietnam, return to Saigon to begin a new study of the war situation in South Vietnam. Their observations will determine further build-up of U.S. military strength in Southeast Asia. Increased draft calls, extended tours of duty & reserve call--ups hang in the balance of the decisions. LS United States Air Force transport plane taxiing. TLS U.S. & South Vietnam military leaders & politicians (including General WILLIAM WESTMORELAND) walking along tarmac. TLS Secretary of Defense ROBERT MCNAMARA alighting plane. MS Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General EARLE G. WHEELER. Shaky MS U.S. Ambassador to South Vietnam HENRY CABOT LODGE JR. Shaky MS Robert McNamara. MS Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. walking along tarmac with entourage, General William C. Westmoreland in BG. MS South Vietnamese guard wearing dark berets & white uniforms, standing at attention with rifles on tarmac. MS press corps; MS Secretary McNamara sitting on couch with General Earle G. Wheeler; MS Lodge, McNamara, General Wheeler walking through crowd. Tilting TLS South Vietnamese government building. Panning MS Secretary McNamara & Ambassador Lodge sitting on couch with Maj. General NGUYEN VAN THIEU and Air Marshal NGUYEN CAO KY. MSs McNamara, Lodge exiting building.
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(13:10:45) Senator HATCH. If you would, I'd appreciate it. Mr. STEINER. Harold and George then called to say that BC was furious. They also asked how Jay Stephens, the former USA, had been hired to be Outside Counsel on this case. Simply outrageous that RTC had hired him, but even more amazing when George then suggested to me that we need to find a way to get rid of him. Persuaded George that firing him would be incredibly stupid and improper. Should I continue? Senator HATCH. Yes. Mr. STEINER. The New York-the NYT wrote a very mean editorial which referred to the 'boneheaded conclave convened by RA.' Lessons: Do what you think is the right thing early [recuse]. Remember that everything might eventually be asked about under oath. Don't let the WH get involved in any way. Senator HATCH. That's fine. Now, the passage you've read from your diary describes the events occurring on February 25; right? Mr. STEINER. Yes, it does. Senator HATCH, You attempted to summarize these events accurately when you wrote them in your diary? 371 Mr. STEINER. As I've said before, Senator, I think there are thin gs here which not exactly reflect the chronology or the nuance of what at occurred. Senator HATCH. But as far as you were concerned, there's nothing in there that you would disavow at this point? Mr. STEINER. Let me make it clear, for example, that neither Mr. Stephanopoulos nor Mr. Ickes ever told me that the President was unhappy. I never learned that directly from either of them. I can go on and find other examples of things Senator HATCH. But the rest of it you would say is accurate? Mr. STEINER. No, if you want, I can go through it sentence by sentence and describe it for you. Senator D'AMATO. Senator, can you yield for a moment. Where did you learn that from then? You didn't make that up? Mr. STEINER. No. Senator DAMATO. Mr. Steiner, the Senator asked if that was a fair representation of your thoughts, and you're now saying that you just put in your diary that Bill Clinton, the President of the United States, was furious? I find it incredible for you to say that you just-it just found its way there. Where did you get that impression? You said neither Mr. Altman nor Mr. Stephanopoulos told you this? Then who did? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I believe I said that neitber Mr. Ickes nor Mr. Stephanopoulos told me that. Senator DAMATO. Then who did? Mr. STEINER. Mr. Altman relayed to me a conversation that he had with Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mr. Ickes. During the course of that conversation, I believe he learned that the President was unhappy about the manner in which Mr. Altman bad recused himself Senator D'AMATO. So Bill Clinton' was furious that he bad recused himself'? Senator HATCH. According to what you wrote there. Mr. STEINER. As I said, Senator, I cannot recall the exact words that Mr. Altman used to describe that conversation. Senator D'AMATO. This is the first time-it takes us a difficult time to get you to-these words are written down and then you kind of run away so Mr. STEINER. Senator, let me just say, I'm not running away from this. I wrote it and- Senator D'AMATO. OK That's what the Senator was asking you and I apologize. I yield to the Senator. Senator HATCH. Could I have back the few minutes I lost there? The CHAIRMAN. I can give you another minute back here and then we have to go to Senator Sarbanes. Senator HATCH. All right. Let me just ask you, you wrote that diary entry on February 25; right? Mr. STEINER. On the 27th, Senator. Senator HATCH. Twenty-seventh, that's right. So that was two days after it actually happened on the 25th? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. So the events of the 25th were fixed and fresh your mind at that time? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I would say 372 Senator HATCH. You only had 2 days intervening, is what I'M saying. Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. In the first phone call, George Stephanopoulos spoke with you about attorney Jay Stephens; is that at right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct, Senator. Senator HATCH. The phone call took place right after the White House learned that Roger Altman had decided to recuse himself from the Madison Guaranty matter; right? Mr. STEINER. That is correct. Senator HATCH. In fact, George Stephanopoulos raised two topics on the phone call. One related to Mr. Altman's decision to recuse, and the other related to the hiring of Jay Stephens; right? Mr. STEINER. I cannot recall, Senator, whether I raised the recusal issue or whether be did, but I do recall be raised the issue of Mr. Stephens. Senator HATCH. But Mr. Stephanopoulos made it very clear to ou that he was very upset that the RTC hired Stephens. In fact, is voice was even raised according to your deposition; is that right? Mr. STEINER. I think he felt that it was a conflict of interest in this instance. Senator HATCH. He was upset and he raised his voice; right? That's what you said in your deposition. Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. Mr. Stephanopoulos asked how Mr. Stephens had been hired; right? Mr. STEINER. That is correct. Senator HATCH. After you told him that the hiring bad been through ordinary procedures, he then argued that Mr. Stephens should be disqualified for a conflict of interest; isn't that correct? Mr. STEINER. I can't recall whether be argued that position Senator HATCH. That's what you said in your deposition. Mr. STEINER. I think be made it a point that Mr. Stephens was probably facing a conflict of interest, given the public comments that he made about this Administration.
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(13:15:49) Senator HATCH. Actually, you understood that Mr.Stephanop oulos thought Mr. Stephens should be fired, didn't you? Mr. STEINER. Mr. Stephanopoulos said be thought it was a con- flict of interest and asked whether that conflict of interest should preclude him from serving in that capacity, and I said, to the best of my recollection, that even if it did preclude him, there was noth- ing we could do about it. Senator HATCH. in your deposition, your answer was he first inquired as to how be had been hired and I relayed to him the same information I relayed to either Mr. Stem or Mr. Podesta. He said that he thought it was a terrible conflict of interest for Mr. Stephens to be working on the case given that Mr. Stephens bad been a vocal critic of the Administration. He suggested that the conflict of interest should disqualify him from working on the case. Mr. STEINER. I believe that's what I just said, yes. Senator HATCH. Jean Hanson told us, both in her deposition and her hearing testimony, that you told her that people you bad talked 373 to in the White House wanted to get rid of Jay Stephens. Do you disagree with Ms. Hanson on that characterization? Mr. STEINER. I have no recollection of saying that to Ms. Hanson.
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(00:00:00)(part two of tape #10067 begins) The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hatch, I don't want to interrupt you because I want you to be able to finish your line of questioning, but I do want to stay within the time period. Senator HATCH. One last question. You don't deny saying that, do you? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I have no recollection of either saying it or not saying it. Senator HATCH. You don't deny or affirm on that matter? Mr. STEINER. As I said, Senator, I have no recollection of either saying it or not saying it. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR PAUL S. SARBANES Senator SARBANES. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Steiner, on this diary excerpt which Senator Hatch had you read, where you say "Harold and George then called to say that BC was furious! In fact, Harold and George's call was to Altman, not to you; is that correct? Mr. STEINER. That's correct, Senator. Senator SARBANES. You then wrote this comment on the basis of what you beard from Mr. Altman about that phone conversation with Ickes and Stepbanopoulos is that correct? Mr. STEINER. That is, sir. Senator SARBANES. Now, when you say that BC, the President, was furious was the President furious that Altman bad recused himself, or was the President furious because Altman had in effect, announced through the paper that be was recusing himself without ever having, I take it, told anyone first within the Administration , including, I assume, the President or someone who would tell the President that he was going to be doing that. Mr. STEINER. The President, as I understood it, was concerned about the manner in which Mr. Altman recused himself which is to say the fact that the information had been relayed first to a newspaper writer as opposed to people within the Administration. At no point, I might add, did Mr. Altman say that the President was furious. I cannot recall the exact words he used to describe his conversation with Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mr. Ickes. Senator SARBANES. He did not say that? That's your editorialYour editorializing about it; is that correct? Mr. STEINER. I cannot recall, Senator, the exact words Mr. Altman used to describe that conversation. I do not recall him Senator SARBANES. Did Altman tell Raines be was going to recuse himself because Raines told him he was going to write a brutal editorial about him; is that correct? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I believe a member of our press staff had spoken with Mr. Raines prior to Mr. Altman speaking with Mr. ]Raines. Upon learning the information about this up coming editorial, Mr. Altman considered that and, I believe, made a decision about recusal. I believe the first time the information was relayed was to Mr. Raines. Senator SARBANES. Did be call Raines? 374 Mr. STEINER. I do not recall who called whom, Senator. Senator SARBANES. Would you say that Altman was very sen- sitive to putting the spin on the press? Mr, STEINER. I would say that he was interested in making sure that the press bad a full understanding of events that occurred, Senator SARBANES. He actually spent a great deal of time and thought at it, didn't be? Mr. STEINER. I think he was forthcoming to the press. Senator SARBANES. Are you still keeping your diary? Mr, STEINER. No, I am not, sir. [Laughter.] Senator SARBANES. Do you know from any conversations with Mr. Altman or Ms. Hanson, whether she went to see Nussbaum in September as-because she bad been tasked to do so by Mr. Altman? Mr. STEINER. I have no knowledge on that subject. Senator SARBANES. You've never beard Mr, Altman express any view about that? Mr. STEINER. Well, I've read press accounts, Senator. Senator SARBANES. I know there have been a lot of press accounts. I'm not asking whether, back in September, you heard anything. I'm asking now, recently, with all these press accounts. It's a lead item in a lot of stories, whether either Altman or Hanson, for that matter, has indicated to you anything about that difference in their testimony. Mr. STEINER. We have tried to be very careful, Senator, about not discussing the substance of this matter in order to maintain the purity of our testimony. I certainly have read newspaper articles about this subject. I don't believe I've bad any specific conversation with either Mr. Altman or Ms. Hanson. Senator SARBANES. Strike the word "specific." Have you had any Mr. STEINER. I cannot recall any conversations where Mr, Altman said to me or Ms. Hanson said to me I have a directly different recollection. Senator SARBANES. Strike the word "directly." Mr. STEINER. Senator, I have beard conversations WH ere Mr. Altman has commented that his recollection is different from Ms. Hanson's.
Argentina
Argentina countryside
Buenos Aires Buildings
ON PREVIEW CASSETTE # 212103 Various buildings and street scenes in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Buenos Aires Scenics
ON PREVIEW CASSETTE # 212103 Various street scenes, buildings, statues, etc. in Buenos Aires, Argentina (similar footage of 625-12)
Buenos Aires
ON PREVIEW CASSETTE # 212103 Various street scenes, tourist attractions, buildings and couple dancing in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Same as catalog #496180 - Master 912 - ON PREVIEW CASSETTE #98670 S.A. airview of jungle
Brazil
S. America - Chile
S. America - Chile
S. America - Chile
S. America - Chile - military band
S. America - Chile
Chile
Chile (boat, flag, street)
Chile (fishing, river, village)
Chile
Chilean Lakes, Puerto Varras
Chile (beach, bathers, etc.)