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ON PREVIEW CASSETTE # 212103 Street scenes of Buenos Aires, Argentina, including Ave. 9 de Julio, Obelisk, Teatro Colon (Opera House), Plaza de la Republica.
August 2, 1994 - Part 2
(11:10:36) Mr. STEINER. Senator, I think Mr. Altman sent out a clear direction as to how be wanted this case handled. That's what executives often do. They give clear direction as to how they want something to proceed. senator KERRY. Was there any indication from Mr. Ryan or Ms. Kulka that it would proceed any, way than otherwise? Mr. STEINER. I don't believe so. No, Senator. Senator KERRY. Then what was the concern? Mr. STEINER. The concern, as I mentioned, as mentioned by Mr. Nussbaum. Senator KERRY. I understand the concern expressed by Mr. Nussbaum, and he'll be here, as will others, to explain it. I'm just trying to understand. I think your diary is very refreshing. I think it's very honest. know you, I know yo're honest, and I know the idealism with which you approach this process. I think you have nothing but the highest public motives at stake. You are the kind of person we need involved in public service. You certainly weren't writing the diary for the purposes of being untruthful, were you? Mr. STEINER. Senator, absolutely not. Senator KERRY. I assume you wanted to have the most accurate diary you could have had, don't you? Mr. STEINER. I want to repeat, Senator, if I could, and I'm sure you're getting tired of hearing this, but the purpose was not to write a precise narrative or to give an exact chronology of what took place. Over the past 5 months, I've had to live with this document, and I've had to go and testify under oath about exactly what I knew and exactly what I think occurred. That's what I'm trying to do for 349 you today. Senator KERRY. I appreciate that, but my time is up. I don't want to cut you off at all. My time is up, and I want to stick by the time limits. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Faircloth. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR LAUCH FAIRCLOTH Senator FAIRCLOTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll go to Mr. Steiner also. And if you will, pull that microphone real close and speak a little slower. Mr. STEINER. Yes, sir. Senator FAIRCLOTH. You testified that you believe that Roger Altman was candid with the Committee, yet you wrote in your diary that Altman gracefully ducked the recusal issue. Is it your testimony that being candid and gracefully ducking are consistent? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I don't believe that lie ducked any questions about recusal. I don't believe he was asked any questions about recusal. Senator FAIRCLOTH. What do you mean by gracefully ducking the recusal issue? Mr. STEINER. The illusion here, Senator, is not to the recusal issue. The illusion is to questions concerning the Treasury-White House contacts. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Do you mean to tell me avoiding answering questions on the issue when you say you're ducking, is that what you mean? Mr. STEINER. Senator Senator FAIRCLOTH. Give me your description of ducking a question. Mr. STEINER. Senator, as I said, I think Mr. Altman was truthful in his testimony before you. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Is truthful and ducking consistent in testimony? Mr. STEINER. I think Mr. Altman was asked a question which he did not anticipate, and he answered in a way that allowed him to convey the information in the clearest possible way that be could. Senator DAMATO. Mr. Steiner, if I might, what question are you referring to that he did not anticipate? Mr. STEINER. I believe he was asked about Treasury-White House contacts. Senator D'AMATO. Would it change your mind if you were to know that the evening before, in a conversation with me, that I had advised him that we would be asking him directly what contacts he had, and Treasury bad, with the White House. Were you aware of that phone conversation I had with Mr. Altman? Mr. STEINER. No, I was not, Senator. Senator D'AMATO. Would that change your mind? If I told him, the evening before, we are going to a askwhat contacts you, or Treasury, or your staff, and the staff I at the White House have bad. 350 Senator FAIRCLOTH. And you're telling me that he gracefully ducked the questions. He knew what was going to be asked. Mr. STEINER. Well, Senator Senator FAIRCLOTH. The whole thing is, be knew what he was going to be asked. He wasn't surp rised. And you're saying that he very gracefully ducked. So, in other words, I don't know, make a distinction between ducking and lying? Mr. STEINER. Senator, if I were to describe that testimony today, I would undoubtedly choose different words. Senator FAIRCLOTH. What now? Mr. STEINER. If I were to describe the testimony today Senator FAIRCLOTH. I'm sure of that. I've never doubted that. Lord have mercy. I knew you'd use different words today, But you tell me the difference between ducking and lying? Mr. STEINER. Senator, as I said before, I do not believe that Mr, Altman lied or attempted to mislead this Committee. I believe he spoke truthfully and to the best of his knowledge.
August 2, 1994 - Part 2
(11:15:35) Senator FAIRCLOTH. If ducking's not misleading-ducking is misleading, now what does lying do. Mr. STEINER. Senator, as I said, I have no reason to believe, nor do I believe, that Mr. Altman lied to this Committee. Senator FAIRCLOTH. But he ducked? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I think he was asked a question which be didn't anticipate. Senator FAIRCLOTH. In fact, you kind of admired his ducking because you said he ducked gracefully rather than clumsily. I mean, that's nicer ducking than kind of stumbling through a duck, to gracefully duck. Mr. Foreman. Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, Sir? Senator FAIRCLOTH. In your deposition, you testified about a conversation you bad with Beth Nolan who worked for Bill Clinton in the White House. In that conversation, you said that you told her that there was concern about the possibility of new leadership at the RTC, in other words, somebody besides Altman. You said the concern was that the new leadership might, and I quote, "come up with some off-the-wall decisions relative to the Madison civil case." Mr. Foreman, as Ethics Director, why should you care whether someone other than Roger Altman made the decision about the Madison Guaranty civil case? You're the Ethics Director. You're supposed to be grading them, not directing them. Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, excuse me. That was not my comment from my head. I was passing on something that I bad heard. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Wait a minute, what now? Who were you passing it on from? Mr. FOREMAN. To the best of my recollection, Ms. Hanson said to me, something like there was concern because the other leadership in the RTC was brand new in their positions and someone bad expressed a concern that there was no experience with the thoroughness and fairness with which they made decisions, That was the basis of the comment that I passed on to Ms. Nolan. Senator FAIRCLOTH. I would think the Ethics Director, you're somewhat of a judge. You're supposed to be setting, the example, isn't that right? 351 Mr. FOREMAN. I would like to think so. Senator FAIRCLOTH. So you're worried about passing,,, on information as to who might come up with something different would produce a different outcome from what you all were hoping for. Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, that's not what that comment goes toward. One of the factors, when one looks to decide to make a discretionary decision of whether to recuse is looking at the other people who would be making the decision if that person doesn't. It's one of the factors listed in section 5.02. 1 was merely passing on a comment that someone bad made to me. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Let me ask you another question, then, and if you'll be shorter in your answer, Mr. Foreman. In depositions, we have learned that you had a conversation with Jean Hanson who testified here yesterday for 8 hours. In that conversation, you and Jean Hanson talked of concerns that Ellen Kulka would be the one making the decisions about Madison Guarantee Yesterday, we learned that Ellen Kulka is regarded as being a tough lawyer. If you weren't trying to influence the outcome of the decision on whether to file civil cases in the Madison matter, why were you concerned about a tough lawyer being the one to make the decision? Mr. FOREMAN. I wasn't concerned at all about a tough lawyer making the decision. That was fine with me, I had no view on the question of who would be making the decision. My only interest was that somebody bad mentioned this, which is a fact related to people who would be making the decision if Roger didn't. I personally had no concern about that, and as I said before, I believed that Mr. Altman should recuse himself from this matter. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Bernard Nussbaum complained to Jean Hanson about the choice of Ellen Kulka, the person who will make the decision in the Madison matter. Nussbaum, twice, wanted to know how Kulka got hired without being cleared by him, even though the RTC is supposed to be an independent agency. The White House wanted to take the Madison Guaranty civil cases away from Ellen Kulka, and ]instead, put the decision in the hands of Robert Fiske. Why would the White House want to replace a lawyer that the think is too tough with Robert Fiske? Were they thinking he'd be softer? Mr. FOREMAN. I don't have any idea about that, Senator. I had no knowledge about that at the time, and I don't know what anyone may have been thinking who said that.
1,000 Years Of Faith: Mt. St. Michel Marks Its Tenth Century
Barefoot Benedictine Monks lead pilgrims to the Abbey of Mont St. Michel to mark the thousandth year that the famed monastery has been a shrine to countless thousands of the faithful. Parts of the majestic pile date to the 18 Century when an oratory was established after St. Michel was said to have appeared at the site. France Aerial of Mont St Michel, beautiful. LS St. Michel high on a rugged hill and sheep grazing below. High Angle Shot - Roof tops of St. Michel. Exterior shot - Very modest hall where the monks eat dinner. CUS skull relic. Aerial shot - The Abbey of Mont St. Michel's. Benedictine Monks in a holy procession. MS Monks walking through water in order to get to the Abbey. MS Procession of Monks climbing up the stairs of the Abbey, carrying a cross. MS Monks queue in line walking into the chapel of the Abbey. CU Christians praying taking part in a Mass. CU Monks at the altar.