August 2, 1994 - Part 3
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(13:05:45) Mr. FOREMAN. I've seen information recently as all of the hearings and things are join& on. I can tell you in February, while we were working on the legal analysis, I knew of no such views. Senator MURRAY. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Let me say we have time, I think, just before our break to accomodate the two Senators that have not yet asked questions. Senator DODD. What your plans would be then is to terminate with this plan or can those of us who have some different points come back to this panel? 369 The CHAIRMAN. Let me seek guidance from the Committee. flow many Members have additional questions for any of the members of this panel? Senator Dodd and Senator Shelby. Anybody else on this side? I will have some additional questions. Senator DAmato, Senator Faircloth, Senator Roth, Senator Hatch, and then there are some Members that aren't here at the moment. So when we finish with Senator Hatch and Senator Sarbanes, well go into the recess until 2:15 p.m. We'll come back and resume at that time. We'll stay with this panel until every Senator that wishes to ask questions has had the chance to do so, proceeding in the same fashion, and then we'll dismiss this panel. And at at point, then, we'll go to Mr. Altman. So that will be our order. Senator Hatch. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ORRIN G. HATCH Senator HATCH. Thanks, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Steiner, after Roger returned from the February 2 meeting at the White House, he stopped by your office and told you that Bernard Nussbaum, the White House Counsel, did not agree with Mr. Altman's plans to recuse himself from the Madison Guaranty matter; is that right? I think you testified to that. Mr. STEINER. He said that Mr. Nussbaum, I believe, had made strong arguments as to why recusal was not the best course of action. Senator HATCH. Mr. Altman also told you Mr. Nussbaum believed that the Madison Guaranty matter would be handled more fairly if Mr. Altman remained involved; is that right? Mr. STEINER. I believe he said to me that Mr. Nussbaum's belief was that the RTC bad a reputation as being a partisan institution, and that be was eager to ensure that this investigation be carried out in a completely impartial, nonpartisan fashion. Senator HATCH. You understood from Mr. Altman that Mr. Nussbaum thought that the RTC might well be too tough in the Madison Guaranty case if Mr. Altman were involved. Mr. STEINER. I do not recall Senator HATCH. Were not involved. Excuse me. Mr. STEINER. I do not recall Mr. Altman ever saying that to me, no. Senator HATCH. Do you recall Mr. Altman stating that Mr. Nussbaum was particularly concerned that a new RTC General Counsel, Ellen Kulka, was tough and tenacious? Mr. STEINER. I have no recollection of that, no. Senator HATCH. Mr. Steiner, let me jump ahead to the week of February 14. You first learned sometime during this week that the RTC had hired Jay Stephens and his law firm Pillsbury, Madison & Sutro, as Outside Counsel in the Madison Guaranty case; right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct, Senator. Senator HATCH. And you learned this in a telephone call from the White House; is that right? Mr. STEINER. From either Mr. Podesta or Mr. Stern, I believe. Senator HATCH. From either Podesta or Todd Stern. John Podesta was the Assistant to the President at that time; right, and Todd Stem worked with Mr. Podesta? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. 370 Senator HATCH. Now, you understood at the time that Mr. Podesta, was to use your terms, "the point of contact" at the White House for all Whitewater-related matters; right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. Do you remember now, which one called you? Mr. STEINER. No, I do not. Senator HATCH. Either Mr. Podesta or Mr. Stern was very upset at the time that the RTC had hired Jay Stephens; is that right? Mr. STEINER. I actually do not recall them speaking in particularly upset tones. I recall them asking me a question. Senator HATCH. They were not happy with it. Mr. STEINER. No, they were not. Senator HATCH. And you were also shocked by the news, as I understand it. Mr. STEINER. I was certainly surprised, Senator. Senator HATCH. And either Podesta or Stern asked you to inquire how Jay Stephens had been hired? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. You agreed to do so? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. You determined from Jean Hanson or her assistant, Robin Gross, that Jay Stephens had been hired through ordinary RTC hiring procedures? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. Senator HATCH. You also learned that Ellen Kulka was responsible for- the decision to hire Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEINER. I do not recall learning that, no, Senator. Senator Hatch. Let me focus on the events of Fe bruary 25 Let me just first ask you to read aloud the portion of your diary beginning with the phrase "after Howell Raines" and ending with 'Xincredibly stupid and improper." If you could read that for us. Mr. STEINER. After Howell Raines from The New York Times called to say they were going to write a brutal editorial, Mr. Altman decided to recuse himself Do you want me to read verbatim?