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August 1, 1994 - Part 3
(14:05:36) Senator BOND. Could you give us, for the record, the names of the individuals involved in the meetings? Mr. ROELLE. It was in one of our normal meetings. Senator BOND. Which would include Mr. ROELLE. Let's see. Whoever-probably Rick Aboussie, who was our Acting General Counsel at the time, Lainar Kelly, who was the Senior Vice President, myself, who is a Senior Vice President, and maybe two or three other staff people from the RTC. I just don't recall who it may have been. Senator BOND aNY HIGHER LEVEL? 68 Mr. ROELLE. Ms. Johnnie Booker, who was our EEO and Minor-ity Officer. It would have included some Treasury people. I don't know-I can only tell you who attended those meetings. I just don't recall who was there at the meetings, but it could have been Mr. Newman, Mr. Steiner, Ms. Hanson, or Mr. Altman. Some Treasury staffers usually accompanied these people. At any one of our meetings it would not be unusual to have anywhere from five to seven , eight Treasury people and maybe five to seven or eight RTC peo ple. You could have 16 people at a meeting. Senator BOND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see my time is UP. The CHAiRmAN. Thank you, Senator Bond. Let me indicate that roll call is now taking place on the Senate floor Senator MACK. Mr. Chairman, I only have one question. We should be able to get it finished. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Mack, let me just take a minute. We've got about 6 minutes to get to the floor from right now. Senator MACK. This is directed to Mr. Katsanos. I understand you had a number of conversations with Jack DeVore, former Spokesman for Secretary Bentsen, about the Madison referrals in the fall of 1993. Drawing your attention to the second and third conversations you had with him, I understand that you knew of the October 14, 1993, meeting with Ms. Hanson and several White House officials. What was your, understanding of why this meeting, was taking place? Mr. KATSANOS. My knowledge of the meeting is really not very extensive. Jack DeVore had called me tip, He was preparing to exit the Treasury Department. I had spoken with him earlier in the month to alert him to the fact that some reporters were calling us concerning Madison Guaranty, the Rose Law Firm, and a number of issues relating to them, I bad told him the staff was having some disagreements on potential criminal referrals, and I thought this story could appear. He called me and told me he was getting ready to go over to the White House for a meeting and all he wanted to know was whether the referrals bad been sent and I acknowledged they bad been. Senator MACK, Did you get any sense about whether this was a press meeting or Mr. KATSANOS. It was my impression that he was going to meet with Mr. Gearan at the White House. I believe be's the Communications Director, and that was the only person he had mentioned would be at the meeting. Senator MACK. Didn't you think you should have been at that meeting? Mr. KATSANos. The White House is not my territory, sir. The CHAIRMAN, Thank you, Senator Mack, We're going to take a brief recess. I want to finish this panel so you can be done for the day. We can take a break after that, and bring Ms. Hanson on. I'm going to recess us now and we'll reconvene no later than 2:30 p.m. to try to finish up. So, if you can be ready to go at 2:30 p.m., we'll resume at that time. The Committee stands in recess. (14:09:27) [Recess.] (14:09:30) Commentary of NINA TOTENBERG and DON BODE from tv studio, they also interview former Inspector General SHARMON FUNK (?) and Senator RICHARD SHELBY
August 1, 1994 - Part 3
(13:30:04)(Tape #10058 begins) Senator Sarbanes. I guess I want to ask Mr. Ryan and Ms. Kulka this question, Of course, we're looking very carefully into these discussions and contacts that took place, and we'll be examining other witnesses that will come before us this week with respect to those matters. I'm interested to know from you, though, as the Acting Director of the RTC and the General Counsel, if any of the referrals involving Madison are in a different posture today than they would have been bad none of these discussions taken place or-I mean, you had these discussions going on, but had these cases moved, in effect, on a straight track and today they're more or less where they would have been in any case? (13:31:05) Ms. KuLKA. With respect to the criminal referrals, they were made before we came. They're in the hands of the Special Prosecutor and we have no relationship to them. Our understanding is that they're in the posture they would normally be in if the Justice were considering them. With respect to cur own investigation, I think we're on an accelerated path far greater than we might be in other circumstances. We are devoting a significant amount of resources and attention to this matter. Senator SARBANES. If anything, you have intensified the pace toward bringing action-in other words, speeded it up. You have not, as a consequence of all that's transpired, there would not have been an impediment or a negative impacting upon the case? Ms. KuLKA. That's correct. The CHAMMAN. You nodded in the affirmative, too, Mr. Ryan. Mr. RYAN, Yes, that's correct. Senator SARBANES. Of course, that doesn't answer the question that we will examine with other witnesses about their behavior, be- it " might have had different results. It's very important, I cause it think, to make the point here that, as far as impacting upon these cases, there has not been a negative impact upon them as you un- derstand it. Is that correct, Mr. Ryan? Mr. RYAN. That's correct. Senator SARBANES. Mr. Roelle, would ordinarily be told-not you or in ordinarily. What number of cases would you, have been told about a criminal referral? You say you got, I think the night before, a phone call telling you about this one. Has it happened in the past? Mr. ROELLE. It bad happened the previous September on the first criminal referral regarding Madison. 57 Senator SARBANES. That came out in the questioning that Senator Kerry engaged you in. Is that correct? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, and it did not happen other than when I was aware of the criminal referrals regarding Lincoln Savings Bank, but that was in early 1990. Senator SARBANES. Upon receiving this information, you felt you should take it to Mr. Altman. Is that correct? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, sir. Senator' SARBANES. Why was that? Mr. ROELLE. Because he was the CEO. Senator SARBANES. When you got the earlier information, had you taken it to Mr. Casey? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, sir. Senator SARBANES. In the earlier case, somehow or another, that information reached the White House because the Counsel to President Bush, Boyden Gray, sought additional information. Is that correct? Mr. ROELLE. That s my understanding, yes, sir. Senator SARBANES. Do you know bow it reached him? Mr. RoELLE. No, sir. (13:34:04)(End of tape #10057) Senator SARBANES, I have no further questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRmAN. Every Senator here that's sought a first round has bad one. Now I'm going to start a second round and we'll see how many people want to question this panel. Ms. Kulka, it's my understanding that you thought Roger Altman should recuse himself from the RTC's investigation in this area. Is that correct? Ms. KULKA. I thought that, for political reasons, sir, he should recuse himself, not for ethical or legal reasons. The CHAIRMAN. Did you communicate that to him? Ms, KULKA. I probably did. The CHAIRMAN. You probably did? Ms. KULKA. I really had several discussions on this with Mr. Ryan, Ms. Hanson, Mr. Altman, and I don't remember if I directly said-i probably asked it instead of said it. I probably would have put it in the context of why are you subjecting yourself and the RTC to the kinds of pressures that are occurring with this, and what is the positive aspect as you weigh the situation? The CHAIRMAN. Weighing all that, your view was that it made more sense for him to recuse himself. Was that your view. Ms. KULKA. From that perspective, yes. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Ryan, do you remember Ms. Kulka indicating that, reflecting that in all these meetings she's just described? Mr. RYAN. I think Mr. Altman was well aware of her view. Whether there was ever precisely those words used or not, it's not clear. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a view? Mr. RYAN. I had the same view.
Moscow Missile Night
Moscow seizes the opportunity on the 20th anniversary of the downfall of Hitler to display her military strength. Not in years has Russia mounted such a calculated propaganda display - and on the same day shot a rocket to the moon for a "soft" landing. A military parade, Russian Field Marshal Zhukovoff and Brezhnev. Russian citizens applauding. MS - Trucks hauling missiles. Huge semi trucks hauling extremely large missiles. Army tanks with missiles mounted to the tops of the tanks.
A New Star Shines Bright
Claudia Cardinale is making her first film in the United States, "Blindfold", starring Rock Hudson. A press reception introduces this Italian beauty who has won acclaim as the happiest invention since spaghetti. Milton Rackmil, Universal Pictures President, adds a bouquet to the many Miss Cardinale has received New York skyline. CU - Claudia Cardinale smiling. MS - Claudia Cardinale and Rock Hudson standing together and smiling. MS - Rock Hudson, Claudia Cardinale and Milton Rackmil, Universal Picture's - President, handing Claudia Cardinale a bouquet of roses.
"Chutes" N Records Both Fall
The U.S. Army Parachute Team - the Golden Knights - show the precision jumping that has brought the nation a new set of International records. They hit the bull's-eye so often that they set 69 new world's records. Giving the United States 93 out of a possible 128 global marks. US Army single wing, single engine plane. Aerial - the X where the parachute team will land after they exit the plane. First man jumps out of the plane and his chute opens. Two members of the Golden Knights jump out of the plane and land right on the X. Aerial - Looking down at the top of the single engine army plane. Jumpers exit the plane and one lands on the X with both feet on the ground.
Kennedy Memorial: Britain Dedicates Tone At Runnynede
There is a little corner of England that will always be American. At Runnymede, Queen Elizabeth escorts Mrs. John F. Kennedy and her children to ceremonies dedicating a Memorial to the assassinated President. The monument is a seven-ton block of Portland stone resting in a three-acre meadow that has been deeded to the United States. It was here at Runnymede in 1215 that the barons of England forced King John to sign the Magna Carta - a document that is the basis of all freedom we enjoy today. What better place for a memorial to a man who belonged to all free men and will be ever mourned by them. A little corner of England's country side. MS - Jacqueline Kennedy and her two young children, Caroline and John Jr. Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip are walking with the Kennedy family. MS - A large block of stone with an honor guard standing at each end of the block. CU - An American Sailor and a British Sailor. MS - Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip are walking with Jacqueline and her children down a walk way approaching the monument. CU - The words inscribed on the Portland Stone. MS - Profiles of the Queen, Prince and Kennedy family. CU - Jacqueline and her children. MS - Jacqueline shaking hands with Prime Minister Wilson, Dean Rusk and the former Prime Minister of England, Harold McMillen. MS - The audience of people in attendance. Queen Elizabeth II, "This acre of English soil in now bequeath in perpetuity to the American people. In memory of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy who in death my people still mourn and whom in life they loved and admired." (Applause) MS - The Queen, Prince and the Kennedy's leaving the site of the Kennedy Memorial. CU - Jacqueline Kennedy and Prince Phillip. CU - American Sailor MS - Jacqueline Kennedy and Prince Phillip stop briefly to look at the Memorial.
Pakistani Deaths In Thousands
One of the worst disasters in history hits East Pakistan. A cyclone and wind-fed tidal waves battered the countryside with unbelievable devastation. 12,000 known dead - with fears the toll will reach 30,000. Pakistan Aftermath in Pakistan resulting from the deadly winds and tidal waves, MS - Homes smashed to smithereens people digging through the rubble. LS - Debris in the harbor of smashed boats. LS - Power lines downed and a few people walking down the street. MS - Metal power bent in half. MS - Trees up-rooted. MS - Two men hands awing a tree limb. MS - Children picking up whatever is salvageable from a flooded street. MS - Twisted trees intermingled with smashed up houses and boats.
Avalanche Traps German Skiers
Laughter and gaiety was suddenly stilled at a German resort by an awesome avalanche. Rescue teams search day and night at Garmisch-Partenkirchen for those missing. 25 skiers were rescued but ten persons perished. Germany A couple of trucks engulfed by an avalanche. MS - Small group who survived the avalanche. MS - Soldiers, digging looking for survivors. CU - German or Austrian soldier. MS - US rescue helicopter and soldiers waist high in snow. MS - Soldiers with German Sheppard s looking for survivors. CU - Un-reconizable twisted metal. Aerial shot - A line of rescue workers that look like a line of ants.
August 1, 1994 - Part 3
(13:35:43) The CHAiRMAN, Did you communicate it to Mr. Altman? Mr. RYAN. I think it was communicated to Mr. Altman. I'm not that I ever specifically said I think you ought to recuse Yourself, but I can recall that in the meetings where we were going 58 over questions and answers for the Committee bearing on oversight it was clear Mr. Altman was aware of our views. Ms. KULKA. Mr. Riegle, may I expand on my answer as I sit here thinking about it? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Ms. KuLKA. I think I made those remarks and held those feelings in the context of Mr. Altman repeatedly saying to Mr.- Ryan and myself, I expect to follow your recommendation, whatever it is in this case. I cannot conceive of not following your recommendation, except if you don't make a recommendation, and I can't imagine that you won't make a recommendation, and in that context, I think, were my thoughts and questions. The CHAiRmAN. The other side of this, as we've gathered these facts, is there's information-some you may have gathered and some to be presented-that there was some pressure on Mr. Altman to not recuse himself coming from people in the White I-louse who expressed a view upon it. It seemed to me-in fact, in your deposition, you were asked the question did Ms. Hanson, who we're going to hear from later today, ever indicate to you or give you the impression by anything she said that there was any pressure being put on Mr. Altman by the White House not to recuse himself.? Why don't you tell us what your view was on that. Ms. KuLKA, I don't think I responded that I thought there was pressure, but at one point in one of our conversations, I walked down the ball with her, and I said, "I just can't believe that he's willing to put himself in this position to take all this political heat when it's clear be's not going to make the actual decision. Why would he ever do it?" And she said to me, Think about it." I a have said to her-I don't know if I said it back to her or I internal ized the thought, that it may have been because the White House did not want him to, but that was it. I don't recall if she responded to me at all. I never had a direct confirmation that there was any White House involvement. The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever understand that there was a point at which Mr. Altman bad reached the point of deciding that he would, in fact, recuse himself? Ms. KULKA. No. The CHAIRMAN. Were you in the Committee room the day-on February 27, 1994-on February 24, 1994, when we had the hearing? You were there, were you not? Ms. KULKA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN, As you know, there was a series of questions put to Mr. Altman, to which he responded. It's a matter of concern to many people, whether the answers were as clear and complete as they should have been. Were you listening to that exchange at the time? Ms. KuLKA. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN, Did you have any information, based on your experience and your involvements, that would have caused you to feel that the answer was less than complete at the time? Ms. KULKA. No, sir. The CHAiRmAN. Did you think about it that way at the time? Ms. KuLKA. I was listening to all of these answers. There were a number of Q's and A's that were prepared and Mr. Altman said 59 when we were preparing them, "I can't read from things. I'll have to be familiar enough on a huge variety of subjects that might have dealt with the operation of the RTC as well as this. I'll just have to be able to remember enough of that or enough of any one that's appropriate to respond." In that context, there were many things in which we had prepared longer Q's and As where be did not cover the whole ground, I had no more feeling about this, that the answer he had prepared to the question, if it were to come, about White House meetings did go beyond this, specifically to refer to the fact that he had mentioned considering his recusal to the White House, didn't trigger anything in my mind at the time. The CHAIRMAN, How long did you spend ahead of time in the preparation for those answers, those Q's and A's, those prep sessions before the testimony of Mr. Altman? Ms. KULKA. We spent the 6 or 7 days before, on and off, working on it and we had at least two long sessions with Mr. Altman. The CHAIRMAN. How long would those sessions have lasted with Mr. Altman? Ms. KULKA. I would say 2 or 3 hours at a time. The CHAIRMAN. You probably spent 5 or 6 hours with him alone in addition to the other time the staff bad spent working everything up on this. Is that correct?
Ticker-Tape Town: Gotham Welcomes King Hassan
Gotham Welcomes King Hassan. After an official reception in Washington, King Hassan of Morocco gets the traditional one in New York -- a parade up lower Broadway to City Hall. The 33 year-old Monarch breaks with precedent and walks part of the way. State visit ticker tape parade and King Hassan is standing up in a convertible waving to the people, CUS - Crowds standing on the sidewalk's in back of horse barricades. MCUS - King Hassan walking down the street enjoying the ticker tape and crowds. MS - People behind the crowd control horses are waving flags from Morocco and American flags. MS - An officer from every branch of the military service stand at attention saluting King Hassan.
The Ugly American First Film Premiere in Southeast Asia
Marlon Brando, producer-director George Englund and H.K. Kukrit are the moving light behind "The Ugly American" which has its world premiere in Bangkok. President Milton Rackmil and Vice-President Americo Aboaf of Universal Pictures are also in attendance as the King and Queen of Thailand preside at the gala premiere of a picture that promises to cause more talk than any motion picture in recent years. Marllon Brando, actor and director George Englund disembark for plane. MS - Bangkok press on the tarmac taking pictures. MSLU - Marlon Brando and George Englund surrounded by Universal International Pictures staff of Thailand standing on a balcony with a huge bannor hanging, 'Universal International Pictures - Welcome To Bangkok - Marlon Brando & George Englund'. CUS Milton Rackmil and Vice-President Americo Aboaf and their wifes. CUS - A young and handsome Marlon Brando. MS - King Filipo and the actors socializing and shaking hands. MOHS - King Filipo and George Englund walking
The Derby: Outsider Takes Classic Race
The Grand National. That supreme event in steeple-chasing. The Grand National, see 47 horses go to the post in this Aintree classic. Gregory Peck has a horse entered, but he has better luck in the movies as "Out And About" leads most of the way over the 30 jumps and four-and-a-half mile turf course. At the finish however, it's AYAlLA who comes out of nowhere to capture one of the most thrilling of all Grand Nationals. Overhead shot of the people standing at the railings watching the horses being paraded around by their handlers. CUS - Gregory Peck, wearing glasses and really watching the horse he has entered in the Grand National. MSOH - 47-horses take off down the track. MCUS - Man looking through binoculars. MSOH - The horses take their first jump. There's one rider down laying on the ground. MS - Another hedge to jump. There are a couple of horses in this race that have no jockeys on them. MSOH - Its the last 500 feet on the track and the horses are running neck to neck. Finely one horse captures the race and it is Ayaioa who comes out of no where and wins the race. MLS - Horse racing fans.
New Cuban Raids: Kennedy Says Attacks Don't Advance Cause
Seventeen men aboard a small twin-engine boat are picked up by British authorities in the Bahamas as they prepare to attack Cuban shipping. President Kennedy calls these raids ill-advised and feel that the raiders would do more good by joining the United States armed forces as have some of their fellow patriots. Cabin cruiser docked next to a pier, a Bahamian law officer is posted next to the cruiser. CUS - Gerry Buchanan MCUS - Men being released from a Bahamian jail. MCUS - President Kennedy steps up to a podium to address the raids. President John Kennedy: "I think when these issues of war and peace hang in the balance that the United States Government and authorities should and when American territories are being used, they should have a possession of some position of some control on the matter. We don't think they're effective, we don't think they weaken Castro, we don't think, rather hastily organized, to raid, which maybe shoots up a merchant ship, kills some crewmen comes back holds a press conference, doesn t seem to us that represents a serious blow to Castro and in fact it may assist him in maintaining his control. We distinguish between those actions in which we feel advances the cause of freedom and these hit and run raids which we do not feel advance the cause of freedom and were attempting to discourage those."
Mr. Churchill Sir Winston Now Honorary US Citizen
As Lady Churchill celebrates her 78th Birthday, it is announced that Congress has made Sir Winston Churchill an honorary United States Citizen, the only man apart from Lafayette to be so honored. His leadership during World War II contributed greatly to the accolade.
Tragedy In Bali. Thousands die as volcano erupts.
Thousands die as volcano erupts. Nearly two thousand Balinese die as Gunung Agung erupts and showers the island with huge rocks and molten lava . The natives believe it was an act of their angry Gods and pray for mercy in a ruined temple. The Indonesian government may evacuate the island completely. Gunung Agung erupting spewing smoke and ashes. MLS - A scenic shot of the side of the mountain / volcano oozing out hot lava flowing down the side and destroying everything in its path. MS - People going into the temple on the mountain side, hundreds of worshipers were killed at this site. MCUS - Buddhist Priest sitting and praying. Camera scanning - The devastation and aftermath of smoldering grasses and trees.
Typhoid Epidemic Sweeps Swiss Resort
The town of Zermatt at the foot of the Matterhorn is a ghost town after an epidemic of typhoid fever sweep the village. More than 450 persons are hospitalized but few deaths are reported. Zematt, Switzerland a building and a shot of the Matterhorn in the background. MOSS - A ski lodge void of people. CUS - Skull and cross bones drawn on a piece of paper "non entrare" written below the skull. MCUS - Health officials clearing out a room and emptying a container of a chemical inside a barrel, and it starts to smoke. MS - Mattresses and bedding put outside on a balcony.
Spring Magic: Cherry Blossoms Blaze In Capital
When the Cherry Trees blossom in Washington can the tourists be far behind? They are out in full flower and the national capital is framed in a bower of beauty. You can just imagine the beauty of the rows of Cherry Blossom Trees. A small crowd of people taking in the beauty of the trees. MS - Beauty Queens being escorted by members of the military in dress uniform. MS - Couple sitting on a park bench overlooking the water with branches of cherry blossoms hanging in the picture. MS - Female artist drawing in a sketch pad with a triad of other ladies looking over her shoulder. CUS - Cherry Blossom branches loader with flowers. MCUS - Cameraman looks over the artist shoulder and of the picture she's sketching. MS - Cameraman takes this picture between the branches of a flowering cherry blossom tree with the Capitol building in the background and water.
August 1, 1994 - Part 3
(13:40:32) Ms. KuLKA. That's correct. The CHAIRMAN. Was recusal, which was on the briefing sheet, discussed during this 4 to 6 hours with Mr. Altman? MS. KULKA. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. To what length? I'm asking you to give me an estimate. You obviously don't have a stopwatch. Ms. KULKA. We probably may have spent 15 or 20 percent of the time that we discussed bow we would respond to all requests on Madison on the recusal issue. The CHAIRMAN. Wouldn't it then have been-you did some of this briefing, I think, even the day before the hearing. Am I correct in that? Ms. KULKA. I think-1 can't recall. It was Monday or Tuesday night, whether it was Wednesday night I can't remember The CHAIRMAN. The point is, it came very shortly before the hearing. Ms. KULKA. That's correct. The CHAIRMAN. And part of the question we have to ask ourselves is would it have been reasonable for Mr. Altman to have remembered the subject of recusal, which bad been the focus of, you percent of the briefing time? You discussed it a short time hand. It was on the briefing document that he bad., We have ether or not it was reasonable that, in the scope of the operations he was asked, he would have mentioned that issue. As I be did not, ' Ms. KULKA. Senator, I don't want to mislead you. We did not spend 15 or 20 percent of the time discussing his recusal issue with the White House. That was in passing. He put it down on his pro posed answer. The time we spent discussing recusal dealt with recusing whether a Senator asked a direct question about why he wasn't recusing himself or what he expected to do, and how he would talk 60 about his understanding of the way in which he would proceed, how he had instructed us in handling the matter, and so forth. The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate the point you're making and we' have a chance to hear from him on that question. Senator Sarbanes. is asking for- Senator SARBANES. Could I just got a clarification? Was the briefing of Altman And your work preparing for the briefing concern the whole activities of the RTC? Ms. KuLKA. That's correct. Senator SARBANES. What portion of the briefing related to Madi-son and Whitewater would you say? Ms. KULKA. Maybe 35, 40 percent, Senator SARBANES. OF, Thank you, The CHAIRMAN. You know, I think that begs another question. Was the recusal issue, that you said took 20 percent of the briefing time, on some issue other than Madison and Whitewater, or was it just on that issue? KULKA. It was on that issue, sir. It would have been maybe 15 to 20 percent of the time we spent on Madison, which would have made it a smaller amount of time in the briefings. I just- The CHAIRMAN. Senator D'Amato. Senator DAMATO, Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to' take all my time. I'm going to yield my time to Senator Mack. Regarding the preparation for that meeting, that Chairman Riegle spoke about, on February 24, 1994, wasn't there a preparation of Q's and As regarding contacts between Treasury and the White House? Ms. KuLKA. There were questions posed, sir, yes. Senator D'AMATO. Was it a Q and A? Ms. KULKA. Yes. Senator D'AMATo. About the contacts between Treasury and the' White House? Ms. KULKA. That's correct. Senator DAMATO. And that was about Madison and the contacts between Treasury and the White House re: Madison, it wasn't about anything else. Right? Ms. KuLKA. I don't have it in front of me, sir, but my recollection was that it was about Mr. Altman's contacts. Senator D'AMATO. With the White House? Ms. KULKA. That's correct. Senator D'AMATO. As it related to Madison? Ms. KULKA. That's correct. Senator D'AMAT0. Didn't the answers specifically make reference to the recusal discussion on February 2, 1994? Ms. KuLKA. That is my recollection. Senator D'AMAT0. So recusal answers were actually prepared as it related to the Madison matter whether or not he was going to recuse himself. Is that correct? Ms. KULKA. And his discussions with the White House as it related to that. There were two different sets of Q's and As that would have dealt with it. One would have been in the context of what his discussion with the White House bad covered and the other would have been directly on the issue of recusal, 61 Senator D'AMATO. To. Before the February 2, 1994, White House meeting, did anyone ask you for authorization or advice on what to say at that meeting? Ms. KULKA. I'm sorry? Senator D'AMATo. In other words, there was a meeting on February 2, 1994, where Mr. Altman met with Bernie Nussbaum, Maggie Williams, and others on the White House staff. Were you consulted about that meeting and were you asked any advice as to what they should or shouldn't say? Ms. KuLKA. I was unaware of that meeting until the Q and A session several weeks later. Senator D'AMATO. That's substantially what we know of it, Would you have approved a briefing of the White House or any other private party that disclosed the progress of the Madison/ Whitewater inquiry? ' ? Ms. KuLKA. I don't know what you mean by "progress," sir. Senator DAMATO. Status of the case,
"500" Qualifying Trials
Tens of thousands are on hand to see the field qualify for the Indianapolis Five Hundred. MCA - Closed Circuit Television is bringing the classic to theatres and arenas all across the nation...giving everyone a chance to see qualifiers like Parnelli Jones, Jim Clark, Mario Andretti and A.J. Foyt. "A.J." qualified easily establishing a new track record for the trials. Aerial shot - Indianapolis Speedway Race Track. Throngs in the racing stands. VIPs standing on the track before the racing begins. Indianapolis 500 racing balloons released. Man taking a picture with a 35mm camera. NO #2 racing car. Roger Ward. CU - NO #82 race car. Jim Cox. Jim Cox seated in the car wearing a helmet. MCA close circuit TV camera and camera man. Mario Andretti sitting in NO #12. Mario Andretti sitting in his race car with his helmet on. MS - Backsides of the mews media. NO #1 The great AJ Foyt is driving this race car and his top speed at the try-outs was 161 mph. Aerial - Looking down at the thousands of cars parked in the lot and little dots that are filling up the stands, those little dots are people. Indi 500' Racing Trophy with the heads and names of the winners who have won past races.
Dalai Lama
The Dalai Lama received permission from Indian Premier Mrs. Indira Gandhi for a cultural mission to Japan, his first voyage out of host country, India, since he escaped the Red Chinese. Dalai (Bstan-'dzin-rgya-mtsho, 14th Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso) and Gandhi sit in a room talking. Dalai sits in a car. He waves to onlookers. Dignitaries escort him to a waiting plane.
Fashions
Scandinavian fashions preview spring and summer '68. Included: maillot lounging outfits, mother-daughter trench coats, and bikinis and cutout-maillots for the beach. Normal runway footage. Models show off various cloths. Onlookers watch from tables. Event held in a theater.
Vietnam
U.S. Marines at Conthien undergo a month-long artillery and mortar pounding from North Vietnam gun emplacements across the buffer zone. Heavy causalities are reported on both sides. Air strikes hit railroad bridges and sidings deep in North Vietnam. Marines dig trenches and then eat lunch. A bomb explodes and causes a soldier to grab his hard hat and take cover. Other soldiers scramble for cover. Cool shot of a soldier lying face first in a dirt trench. Three shots of wounded soldiers being carried off on cots. Soldiers fire artillery rounds. Aerial footage of bombs being drooped on a bridge. The shock wave of various bombs can be seen spreading out from their epicenter.
LBJ's Speech
President Johnson addresses the National Legislative Conference in San Antonio and repeats his previous offers toward a negotiated peace in Vietnam. He says the bombing would halt if it led to "productive" peace talks. The President is shown speaking from a podium. A quick cut away shows the guests at this black tie dinner fundraiser.
August 1, 1994 - Part 3
(13:45:45) Ms. KuLKA. I don't know that anyone-I really don't even know if Mr. Altman knew the status of the case.Senator DAmATo. I'm not asking that. I said would you have approved it? I'm not asking you to get ahead or to try to anticipate what went on at that meeting. I said would you have approved a briefing to the White House or to any private party that disclosed the progress of a case under inquiry? Ms. KuLKA. I don't know what you mean by progress, sir. I don't mean to be argumentative, but our Q's and A's, I think, to some degree, were prepared to discuss some of the procedural aspects, if we were asked that by the Committee. If that is what you mean as progress, I think we would have been prepared to talk about the date that had been originally set for the expiration of the statute and tolling and so on. Senator D'AMATO. Didn't you prepare and send to the staff a memo of February 4, 1994, in which you instructed the RTC officials what areas they should not discuss? Ms. KULKA. That's correct. I did prepare one, and talked about what they were limited to discussing. Senator D'AmATo. Isn't it a fact that that February 4, 1994, memo does not authorize any discussions with non-RTC officials about the likelihood of requiring a tolling agreement from private Parties in the Madison case? Ms. KuLKA. It speaks for itself, sir, and I don't remember the words precisely. Senator D'AMATO. That's a fact. Isn't it a fact that your February 4, 1994, memo does not authorize any discussions with non-RTC of ficials about which particular RTC personnel were supervising the Madison investigation? Ms. KuLKA, I'm sorry, sir, but if 0 you's like to give it to me, I'll reread it. otherwise, you have it in front of ~ you, 'Senator Sarbanes. Mr. Chairman, if we re going to do this-is this Ms. Kulka's memo? ' Senator D'AMATO. Yes. February 4, 1994, and we have it, The CHAIRMAN. If you're asking to have it in front of you, I think You ought to be able to have it in front of you. Ms. KuLKA. I'm sorry to say I can't even read that. 62 Senator D'AMATO. Let's send one down--let's read them out loud, These are talking points for anyone authorized to discuss the Madi. son situation, additional information should not be supplied unless it has been properly approved. This is standard procedure and anyone authorized to speak should be aware that the discussion of any additional information could have an impact on the agency's legal position and any matters arising out of Madison. It's too bad that maybe they didn't have this before because, obviously, matters that are now rather contentious and the question of what they did speak about at that February 2, 1994, meeting could have been avoided. You have a list of eight different points., Does that refresh your recollection? Ms. KULKA. Yes, I have it in front of me now, sir. Senator D'AMATO. Isn't it a fact that the February 4, 1994, memo does not authorize any discussions with non-RTC officials about which particular RTC personnel were supervising the Madison investigation? Ms. KULKA. Unless it had been properly approved, sir. Senator D'AMATO. Correct. I yield the balance of my time to Senator Mack. Senator MACK. I thank my friend. How much time do you have left? Senator D'AMATO. I don't know. Three or 4 minutes. You can take it. Senator MACK, Mr. Roelle, you had testified that Mr. Stephen Katsanos informed you of a press inquiry regarding matters relating to Madison in October 1993, which is to say not September 1993, and didn't you then relay that information to Mr. Altman? Mr. RoELLE, Yes, sir. Senator MACK. Do you have any disagreement with the way I've laid out those dates? Mr. RoELLE. I don't recall exactly when I got the information from Mr. Katsanos. It was the E-mail that I referred to earlier in testimony today. I think be had forwarded a copy of it to me. Senator MACK. I think that was October 6, 1993, but I'm not positive. Mr. RoELLE. I had a subsequent normally scheduled meeting with the Treasury at Treasury. I related the fact that one of our Investigators had been questioned by a reporter regarding the criminal referrals. Senator MACK. What was Mr. Altman's response to that? Mr. ROELLE. He took it rather well. He didn't get upset and he didn't express any indignation. He just said thank you. Senator MACK. Was there any conversation with Ms. Hanson? Mr. ROELLE. Yes, he called Ms. Hanson on the phone and told her what I was telling you.