August 1, 1994 - Part 3
August 1, 1994 - Part 3
(14:55:15) Senator SHELBY. I'll try to be brief Ms. Kulka, could you go into, again, what Rule 11 says and why it was there, with a brief discussion? Ms. KULKA. There's a Federal Rule of Civil Procedure which provides, in essence, that an attorney may not sign or certify a pleading unless that attorney believes there is a factual basis for the allegations set forth in the pleading in the complaint, for instance, and that it's made in good faith and is not frivolous. There are sanctions that are assessable against the attorney, rather than the client, if inappropriate pleadings are filed that don't meet the standards set forth in Rule 11. Senator SHELBY. Basically, you and your office were aware that this case was not ready for filing at this point in time. Ms. KULKA. It wasn't ready for filing in early February, that is for sure. Senator SHELBY. That's what I mean. Ms. KuLKA. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. Information is very important, isn't it, Ms. Kulka? Ms. KuLKA. Yes, Senator SHELBY. And inside information or information that's not known to the public but could possibly affect someone's case is a precious commodity, isn't it? Ms. KuLKA. It can be. Senator SHELBY. It can be. Other than Mr. Altman, I'm aware of what Ms. Hanson's contacts were and so forth, but did anyone in the RTC other than Mr. Altman, to your knowledge, mention briefin the White House? vs. KuLKA. No, sir. senator SHELBY. So, except for Mr. Altman wearing these two hats, in other words, being the Deputy Secretary of Treasury and the Acting CEO of the RTC, was that the catalyst for the problem? Ms. KULKA, I don't know, sir. There is a provision in the statute, 1821T, although I'm not good at citing them, that permits Government agencies to share a lot of confidential information with other Government agencies without waiving the privilege. I think that's 78 in recognition of the fact that it was unclear, if you shared that in. formation before that provision was passed, that you wouldn't waive the privilege. That's all to a recognition that agencies do share information. Senator SHELBY. Ms. Kulka, this information regarding two pos-sible--criminal referrals, that is confidential information, isn't it? Ms. KuLKA. That's correct, and you wouldn't reveal it outside Senator SHELBY. Have you known, since you've been at the RTC out of any other information like that that's been disseminated the RTC? Ms. KuLKA. Of course, there is the information that our staff reg- ularly leaks, sir, and we've had a great deal of difficulty with. Senator SHELBY. Other than that, do you know of some specific , briefings that took place other than Altman, Bentsen, and so forth? Ms. KuLKA. Are you referring to the White House? Senator SHELBY. Yes. Ms. KuLKA. I'm unaware of a Senator SHELBY. There's a difference between an ordinary leak and a specific briefing, is it not? ~ ~ Ms. KULKA. There s a difference between a briefing within the Government and a leak outside of the Government, es, sir. Senator SHELBY. Would you call it a briefing within the Govern-. ment when the Counsel at Treasury goes to the White House and explains what's going on at the RTC regarding some people thatcould be targets of that? Ms. KuLKA. I don't understand if what you're telling me, sir, is the factual basis for what happened or if it was the subject matter. I have a lot of problems speculating about it, the way you've got it characterized. Senator SHELBY. In other words, you don't know what went on down there other than what you've been told or read. Is that what you're saying? Ms. KuLKA. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. You don't want to speculate at all? Ms. KuLKA. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. You did say, a minute ago, this is confidential information that should have stayed within the RTC? Ms. KuLKA. No, I said it could be shared amongst Government agencies, in the appropriate circumstance, without waiving the privileges. Senator SHELBY. What would you consider to be proper Government agencies? Ms. KuLKA. I think it depends on the circumstance. Senator SHELBY. What would you consider? Ms. KULKA_ For instance, when I was at OTS, OTS and the RTC shared a lot of information about criminal referrals and investigations, We shared them with other regulatory agencies. We shared them with the Department of Justice. They were not just criminal referrals. Senator SHELBY. Did you share them with the White House? Ms. KULKA. No, sir. Senator SHELBY. That's all. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Shelby. 79 Senator Domenici. Senator DOMENICI. Thank you very much. Could I ask, would you give me your definition of a recusal, Mr. Ryan?