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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.29.15] Mr. SANDERS. To your knowledge, was there any cash goal during the campaign? Mr. STANS. A goal to be received in cash? Mr. SANDERS. Yes, sir. Mr. STANS, I never heard of one. Mr. SANDERS. At or about the time -you became chairman of the finance committee, did you have some contact with Mr. Kalmbach, Herbert Kalmbach, concerning the transition--that is, the turnover to you of the funds he had on hand- -and receive an accounting for this? Mr. STANS. Yes. That happened before I became chairman of the finance committee but after the time, I had agreed to take on the job. Mr. Kalmbach had money in his possession, some, of which he had carried over from 1968 and some of which he had accumulated sub subsequently. It was a substantial amount of money and I had tried to have the understanding in 1968 and I wanted the understanding in 1972 again, that there would not be separate cash funds in operation outside of the hands of the treasurer. Mr. Kalmbach was totally in agreement with that and we had an understanding that he would turn in all the funds in his possession--not only before I became chairman, but before the law was- signed by the President. And I am told by him and by Mr. Sloan that on February 3 Mr. Kalmbach turned over to the finance committee all the money that he then had, cash and in bank accounts. Mr. SANDERS. Do you have a recollection of meeting with Mr. Kalmbach prior to that, February 3 date and receiving from him personally some accounting of the funds he had on hand? Mr. STANS. Yes, I remember that. Mr. Kalmbach and I met and talked about the very subject, we are talking about. Kalmbach gave me a statement showing how much money he still held in bank accounts and in safe deposit boxes. Mr. SANDERS. Do you recall the date, Mr. Stans? Mr. STANS. I think it was January 24. The date. is on the statement, and I believe you have a copy and I have a, copy. Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I have a document here which I would like to have marked for identification and shown to Mr. Stans. Senator BAKER [presiding]. The document will be marked for identification and shown to the witness. Senator BAKER. Mr. Stans, before you proceed any- further, we have just received a vote signal. It is now 3:30 and if you are agreeable, to returning, we will take about, a, 10-minute break while we go vote, and come back and continue with your questioning. Mr. STANS. I will stay, Mr. Chairman. [00.32.36--MacNEILL in studio] MacNEILL states that the committee has taken a recess for a rollcall vote on the Senate Floor [PBS network ID--title screen--"SENATE HEARINGS ON CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES"] [00.35.08--MacNEILL] MacNEILL states that in the last hour of testimony, STANS will explain how he got the $75,000 that was given to Herbert KALMBACH for unknown purposes [00.35.28--Sen. ERVIN.]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.17.14--committee room] Senator ERVIN. Mr. Sanders. Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Stans, this committee has received testimony from several witnesses and from you today concerning the Budget Committee of the Finance Committee To' Re-Elect the President; that, is, that it was composed of three members from the finance committee and three members from the Committee To Re-Elect the President and I would like to take just a, few minutes to explore some aspects of that committee with you. To begin with, it's been asked of you -who your superiors were. No mention in your answer was made of Mr. Mitchell. Did you consider in any way that you had any line responsibility to him, you being chairman of the finance committee and him as chairman of the Committee To Re-Elect the President? Mr. STANS. No, I did not really consider that I was subordinate to Mr. Mitchell. We were separate committees, each performing our mission, and we communicated from time to time and our principal means of discussion about what we had to do to accomplish our mission was in the budget committee meetings. Mr. SANDERS. Who designated you to be a member of the budget committee? Mr. STANS. Mr. Mitchell and I worked that out Jointly, that there would be three members from each committee. Mr. SANDERS. The budget, committee then was not, in being at the time you became chairman of the. finance committee? Mr. STANS. No, sir, and Mr. Mitchell was not, there, either, at that time. Mr. SANDERS. When did the budget committee actually begin to function? Do you recall? Mr. STANS. I do not recall precisely but I think our first meetings were in April. They were irregular, they were not on schedule, they were meeting-, as material came to hand or questions arose and in those days we were trying first to get an overall budget put together on which we could agree, and secondly, we were trying to get budgets from each of the 50 States; as to how much would be spent in each State. Mr. SANDERS. Would you please state the membership of the budget committee at the time. it was constituted? [00.19.47] Mr. STANS. There was John Mitchell, Job Magruder and, I believe, Bart Porter on the Campaign committee side. There was myself , Hugh Sloan, Jr., and Lee Nunn on the finance committee side. but in addition to the three from each side, meetings were attended by two or three. other people from each committee so they were a little larger than six-man meetings. Mr. SANDERS. Did you customarily chair the budget committee meetings? Mr. STANS. No, we were, cochairmen but I deferred generally to Mr. Mitchell and I think he, chaired more often than I did. Mr. SANDERS. Who prepared the agenda for the meetings, or Were they less formal than that? Mr. STANS. Well, for the, first, number of months they were very informal, there, were no agendas We began to have agendas after the convention when we began to deal with the very large amounts of money currently being spent. Mr. SANDERS. To your knowledge, did the budget, committee ever give consideration to the Collection of cash contributions and retention of that in a repository within the premises of the finance committee? Mr. STANS. The budget committee did not, deal with contributions. The budget committee dealt, exclusively with the expenditures of the campaign. Specifically it did not, separately deal with cash transactions. Mr. SANDERS. Realizing that the budget committee may not have considered the receipt of cash contributions, nevertheless did it ever consider the potential use, of cash as opposed to the, Use Of funds in bank accounts? Mr. STANS. No, there was no distinction between cash and bank accounts in any discussions in the budget committee Mr. SANDERS. Now, there were large sums of money, we have, been hearing expended for -Mr. Liddy, Mr. Porter, and some Others. To your knowledge, and I presume you either attended all of the budget committee meetings or were informed what had transpired there if you were not able to attend, to your knowledge, did the budget committee ever take under consideration the allocation of any cash funds to Mr. Liddy or to Mr. Porter? Mr. STANS. No. The budget committee did not specifically deal with any allocation of cash funds to any individuals, Porter, Liddy, or anyone else. Mr. SANDERS. To your knowledge, did the budget committee ever take under consideration the allocation of funds to be expended for any intelligence-gathering operation? Mr. STANS. I do not recall ever hearing any discussion of intelligence-gathering in the budget committee meetings. [00.23.23]
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.23.23] Mr. SANDERS. Prior to June 17, Mr. Stans, were you aware that, an intelligence-gathering operation was underway? Mr. STANS. No, I was not. I do not recall hearing any discussion of such an activity. Mr. SANDERS. In fairness, Mr. Stans , let me cite, to you you what I am getting at here. In the Patrick Gray confirmation hearings I have before me, in the transcript of those hearings at page 143, it, is stated by Mr. Gray that he had checked his records concerning FBI interviews with you. He says that you were interviewed four times by the FBI and that on the last date, which would have been July 28, you stated to this effect; I presume he is paraphrasing you here he says this: "Stans became, aware from general conversations that Liddy was assigned a 'security-gathering job and that certain cash disbursements would have to be made available to Liddy." Mr. STANS, Well, I think we are talking about semantics here and I 'Would like to correct, the impression right away. I was told somewhere in 'May, I believe by Magruder that Liddy had it responsibility for security at the San 'Diego convention. Now, how he was going about on security I had no way of knowing and it may well have included intelligence gathering of various types. Mr. SANDERS. Do you have any recollection of -making any statement to the FBI that you were "aware that Liddy was engage in intelligence gathering? Mr. STANS. I do not recall using that Word at all. I do recall testifying before. the grand jury, I believe, that sometime before June 17, had learned from Magruder, I believe, that Liddy was working On security for the San Diego convention. Mr. SANDERS. It seems that the line of questioning has developed that one of the problems perhaps with the campaign was too much cash on hand and available for some perhaps questionable purposes. The question naturally arises that as chairman of the finance committee is it reasonable that you did not become aware of the expenditures of such large sums of money and could these sums have been allocated without consideration by the budget committee? How does this happen? How can this possibly come about? Mr. STANS, Well, again, I think you would have to break down your consideration of that question to the period before April 7 and after, beginning April 7. Before, April 7, there. were amounts of money received by the committee in cash going back to long before I became finance chairman. After April there were practically none-there were one or two transactions which were never completed in the way of contributions in cash and there were a few contributions in cash which were deposited and fully reported. But most of the cash, a very high proportion of it, was received, handled and disbursed before April 7 and, therefore, operated under the old law. Mr. SANDERS. I fully understand that many donors may have wished to make cash contributions for purposes of anonymity. Aside from the cash contributions that have been covered by Mr. Edmisten--that is, the Dahlberg and Mexican checks, and we are remaining away from the Vesco matter--did you specifically, in your search for contributions, seek any cash donations? Mr. STANS. Let me first, put the cash question into perspective. Out of all of the money raised during the campaign, only about 3 percent was in cash. Out of all the, money spent during the campaign, only about 2 percent was in cash, or less. So that we were not running a bank in which people were running in every day by the hour handing us cash and we were disbursing cash. We did have some from people who wanted that extra degree of anonymity. And for those who tendered us cash, we accepted it and properly so, because the law, as I read it and as counsel advises me, said we properly may accept money or anything of value. So we received money in the form of checks, we accepted money in the form of cash, and we accepted contributions in other forms that we could convert into cash, [00.29.15]
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