August 1, 1994 - Part 5
August 1, 1994 - Part 5
(17:30:47) Senator MACK. As I understand it, even the Justice Department didn't have knowledge of those referrals at that point. Is that right? Ms. HANSON. The Justice Department wasn't going to have to deal with the press inquiries.Senator MACK. That was not my question. My question only concerns timing. On September 29, 1993, the Justice Department did not have the referrals. Correct? Ms. HANSON. Sir, I don't believe so, but I don't know. Senator MACK. Is it your testimony that Mr. Altman knew of, and approved of, your conversation with Mr. Nussbaum on September 29, 1993? Ms. HANSON. Yes, it is. Senator MACK. At that point in time, September 29, 1993, were you aware of any publicity regarding the new criminal referrals? Ms. HANSON. Was I aware of any publicity? I don't know what that means. Articles? I was unaware of any articles. Senator MACK. You didn't have any direct knowledge, at that time, that there was a leak? Ms. HANSON. I had spoken with Mr. Roelle 2 days before. I knew the referrals were on their way to Washington. I understood that they would leak as soon as they arrived. I thought Mr. Roelle was a very pod source of that knowledge. Knowing that, I inquired as to whether or not his view was that these referrals were going to leak. I had no way of knowing whether or not they bad leaked at the actual time I spoke with Mr. Nussbaum. On the other hand, it was very clear from the Early Bird on September 30, 1993, that they had leaked. From the chronology that was just released yesterday from the IGs, it states that on September 23, 1993, Mr. Dudine, the Director of the Office of Investigations of the RTC, had reported that a reporter was getting close to something on the criminal referrals. That was a full week before I spoke with Mr. Senator MACK. But you bad no actual knowledge? Ms. HANSON. But I had a very good source of Senator MACK That was not my question, Ms. Hanson. My question was, at that time, did you have any personal, actual knowledge? Ms. HANSON. I did not. Senator MACK. Did you have a subsequent conversation with Mr. Sloan of the White House Counsel's Office on September 30, 1993? And what was the substance of that conversation? Ms. HANSON. I have been recently shown Mr. Sloan's notes, in fact, I may have first seen them when I spoke with the Committee staff. I don't have an independent recollection of that telephone conversation-of that conversation. I've seen the notes, but I don't have a recollection of that conversation. Senator MACK. We have seen testimony that there was a phone conversation. MS. HANSON. That's my understanding of the testimony. Senator MACK. The phone conversation was between you and Mr. Sloan on September 30, 1993, and it must have been a fairly detailed conversation, because Mr. Sloan's notes indicate that nine criminal referrals in the investigation bad been forwarded to Washington. Ms. HANSON, I'm not saying, sir, that it didn't happen; I'm just ,a . saying I don't remember it. Senator MACK. But you didn't remember. Mr. Sloan, now, has testified he had received this information in a phone conversation with you on September 30, 1993, and he has gone so far as to have extensive notes on that, and notes outlining the nine referrals. Ms. HANSON. Sir, I'm not disputing Mr. Sloan's recollection. I'm just saying I don't recollect it. Senator MACK. In addition to his notes about the nine criminal referrals, Is, he also said there were allegations concerning Mr. Tuck a former Senator J. William Fulbright of Arkansas, and Mr. McDougal I in connection with the RTC. The RTC bad concerns about diversion of funds to Mr. Clinton's 1984 112 campaign, and the campaign was, being examined as a possible conspirator. Does any of this sound new to you? Ms. HANSON. I don't have a copy of the notes in front of me The CHAIRMAN. Here is a set here, can you take them please. Just pass them over to this gentleman. While you study those Ms. Hanson, were those available to you as a reference in your deposition? Were you shown those then, or just quizzed about them?