Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.08.29--In to Sen. BAKER] Senator BAKER [presiding]. I might say that the chairman will be here shortly. I understand from the chairman's representative that it was his wish that we reopen the hearings and continue. I reiterate what I said earlier, Mr. Porter, I am in no way trying to be antagonistic to you, I have no animosity toward you, I am trying to probe for a state of mind and the institutional arrangements the structuring, the situation that produced what would appear Me to be an abdication of one's personal judgment of what is right or Wrong about a particular set of activities. That inquiry was frankly kicked off my mind by the designation of "dirty tricks" within the campaign organization itself, by a situation that led you by your testimony, apparently, to commit, perjury. With that as the end result, I hope you can understand why I am trying to probe for the set of circumstances that led a young man to do those things. I think I have spent most of my questions. I think that I am at best in an area of questionable definition but if you have anything further you can give me that would shed light on why you agreed to swear falsely, why you closed your mind, apparently to undesirable conduct if not improper conduct in a political campaign, the committee would be grateful for it. Mr. PORTER. Senator Baker, I am not a philosopher or moral philosopher but I am trying to answer your questions as honestly as I possibly can and hopefully it comes out right. If it does not, it is as honest as I can make it. First of all, I was not in charge of dirty tricks. I do not know where all of this money went. I was never aware of all of this money. I was aware of the amount of money I got from Mr. Sloan and even that I was really only aware of about $17,000, I had been told where that actually ended up. Senator BAKER. Did you tell Mr. Sloan what you used that money for? Mr. PORTER. No, sir; I did not. Senator BAKER. Did Mr. Sloan ever ask you about Mr. PORTER. I have heard Mr. Sloan make that statement and I believe, I would not dispute it, I am sure he probably did, and I probably said you will have to ask Mr. Magruder. Whether that was because I did not know what it was being used for, whether I -"as just evading a question, I do not remember the Conversation. Senator BAKER. If Mr. Sloan were to assert that he asked you what the money was being used for and you refused to tell him, would you dispute that? Mr. PORTER. I would not dispute it. I do not remember the conversation, Senator. Senator BAKER. All right, go ahead, Mr. PORTER. But I did not have any knowledge, of that, Senator. I did not know. At the time Mr. Magruder talked to me in retrospect, I was a pretty easy target for that sort of thing because I did not know, anything. I did not have any knowledge of the Strachan money, the Kalmbach money, the Liddy money, all of these Other things. I did not know anything about that. Senator BAKER. Did You ever see any stolen documents or transcriptions of illegal wiretaps? Mr. PORTER. I never saw any transcriptions of legal wiretaps. Senator BAYER, Did You ever see any stolen documents? Mr. PORTER. Probably so. Probably so. But I do not know whether they were stolen or whether they were sent by somebody perhaps in a campaign. Senator BAKER. Do you know a Mrs. Duncan? Mr. PORTER. I know Martha Duncan. Senator BAKER. Who 'Was She? Mr. PORTER. She was my secretary for a short period of time. Senator BAKER. Did she ever type up any documents that you knew to be stolen documents? Mr. PORTER. Yes, sir. Senator BAKER. What happened then. Tell me a little, illuminate that a little bit. What tinge of conscience came into play when YOU instructed your secretary to type a copy of stolen documents? Mr. PORTER. I am not sure of any tinge of conscience, Senator. I had been told by others in the campaign that this kind of thing was normal activity in a, campaign. In my opening statement said that I had never been involved in a political campaign before and I had not. These things were all new to me and I accepted them for what they were, [00.12.54] Senator BAKER. That is a terrible indictment of politics. Being a politician I am really distressed to hear that. Are you telling me in effect, that it was your opinion that this sort of thing went on in politics With Democrats and Republicans and that it was fair game, and that it might bother your conscience a little but it had to be done? Mr. PORTER. That is exactly what I felt, Senator. Senator BAKER. How do you feel now? Mr. PORTER. Well [ very nervous laughter] I am not sure that, they have stopped. Senator BAKER. What would you do now? Mr. PORTER. If what, sir? Senator BAKER. If you were in the same situation, pick any one of the, things, whether you are swearing, falsely to the grand jury or whether you are photographing or rather typing stolen documents, whatever it is, or $17,000 for pranks or dirty tricks, what would your attitude be, at this point? Mr. PORTER. It would be I would not, become involved in any way, shape or form. Senator BAKER. What brought about the change? Where is this real emergence of human instinct for decency in politics? Mr. PORTER. Again you are asking me to give a moral judgment. In my own personal case, it has devastated me personally and that, is reason enough for me never to do it again. I can't answer for the others. [00.14.10]