Watergate Hearings - Testimony of Herbert Porter, June 7, 1973.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of Herbert Porter, June 7, 1973.
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973. Testimony of Herbert Porter.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of Herbert Porter, June 7, 1973.
Senator Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Senator Baker. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Mr. Porter, I am not going to try to take you over the same testimony that counsel and the chairman have already covered. Nor am I going to be unduly critical of your position, I trust. But rather than inquire into the factual background and factors and circumstances that led you to swear falsely, apparently, before the grand jury of the United States district court, rather than elaborate and expand further on the situation that leads you to this witness chair today, I d like to probe your reasons and motivations. I would like to start with how you got into the dirty tricks business, what you thought of it at the time and what you thought you d accomplish. And I believe that is a good place to stop. Would you tell me that, please? Herbert Porter, CRP aide. The first, time I ever heard the, words "dirty tricks" I think, was from Mr. Magruder sometime in the, fall of 1971, and I had to ask him what it was. He asked me if I know who Dick Tuck was. I said, "No, I had never heard the name." And he described some of Mr. Tuck's activities. I then, upon reflection, remembered something out of Theodore White's book from the 1964 Presidential campaign, where President Johnson had a group called the 5 O'clock Club, I think it was, a group of 12 young attorneys and White House staffers that met in the White House every afternoon during the campaign to plan all kinds of deviltry, I think it was referred to, and dirty tricks against, Senator Goldwater. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Now, let me stop you just, a moment. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. And this is what, I thought dirty tricks were.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of Herbert Porter, June 7, 1973.
Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). All right. May I stop you just, a moment? Herbert Porter, CRP aide. Yes, sir. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). The chairman has explained to you and the committee that, we intend to recall you for other testimony. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. Yes, sir. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). And the scope of our inquiry today ought to be on the Watergate attendant circumstances. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. Yes, Sir. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). I am departing from that slightly, but I want to tell you that I am searching for your motivations and reasons. I am not now at this time searching for the facts. I will at a different, time.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of Herbert Porter, June 7, 1973.
Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Any insight you can give me as to why a young man with your background, with your education, with your obvious intelligence, found yourself in charge of or deeply involved in a dirty tricks operation of the campaign, I need to know more of why. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. Yes, sir. I don t think I was in charge of any dirty tricks operation at the campaign, and I am not aware that anybody has testified to that fact. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Well, tell me what your involvement, was. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. I dispensed certain moneys to certain individuals at Mr. Magruder's request over the period of time from, probably, October of 71 until probably May or June, I guess, of 1972, some $69,000. About, $52,000 of that $69,000 was given to people or persons, for purposes the use of which I did not know at the time. So approximately 75 percent of that, money was used for purposes I did not know about. I was asked to have a Dick Tuck type of individual, find one, and pay him to perform those kinds of activities that were more in the prank category. The first person that I made contact with did that for about 2 weeks, as I remember and decided that that was not his bag. The second person, was on, was paid for a period of about three months and participated in some of the primary campaigns. That was just about the extent of it. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Well, who else was doing this? Herbert Porter, CRP aide. I do not, know, Sir. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Do you know of anyone else besides you who were hiring people for pranks? Herbert Porter, CRP aide. No, sir, I do not.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of Herbert Porter, June 7, 1973.
Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). As I understand the essence of your testimony to this point, then, 75 percent of the money is unaccountable, or you cannot account for; 25 percent of the money you can; that you hired two men to do, as you put it, a Dick Tuck operation, so-called prank operation. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. Yes sir. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Is this synonymous with the dirty tricks operation that you referred to earlier in your testimony? Herbert Porter, CRP aide. No, sir. Mr. Magruder indicated to me that money had been, in fact, authorized to Mr. Liddy for dirty tricks and other special projects Now, what he said was that they were not illegal and that what Mr. Liddy had done, apparently or what he had apparently done at that time was illegal and was not a part of that authorization.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of Herbert Porter, June 7, 1973.
Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Did you ever have any doubt in your mind about the propriety of this? Herbert Porter, CRP aide. About the what, sir? Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). About the propriety? Not the illegality, but the propriety of it. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. I did not know what he was referring to, and he did not tell me what he was referring to. He never explained any of the dirty tricks operation that Mr. Liddy was involved in. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). I do not think that answers my question. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. I am sort sorry, sir, Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). I will put it again. Did you ever have any qualms about what you were doing, about the propriety of hiring these people, for the dirty tricks or whatever it was? I am probing into your state of mind, Mr. Porter. Herbert Porter, CRP aide. I understand. I think the thought crossed my mind Senator, in all honesty, that I really couldn t see what effect it had on reelecting a President of the United States. On the other hand, in all fairness, I was not the one to stand up in a meeting and say that this should be stopped, either. So I don t, I mean, there is space in between. I kind of drifted along. Senator Howard Baker (R - Tennessee). Now, you have reached now precisely that point that I would like to examine and I intend to examine it with other witnesses as this hearing proceeds.