Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
Peter Rodino (D New Jersey). I recognize the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Flowers. Walter Flowers (D Alabama). Mr. Chairman, I have a motion at the desk. Peter Rodino (D New Jersey). The clerk will report the motion. The Clerk [reading]. Amendment by Mr. Flowers, strike subparagraph 9 of the Sarbanes substitute. Walter Flowers (D Alabama). Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the debate on my amendment be limited to 20 minutes, with 10 minutes being allocated to the proponents of the amendment and 10 minutes to the opponents. Peter Rodino (D New Jersey). Without objection, it is so ordered.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
Walter Flowers (D Alabama). And I yield my 5 minutes to the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Hungate. William Hungate (D Missouri). I thank the gentleman for yielding. Mr. Chairman, we have had complaints concerning the lack of direct evidence and complaints concerning circumstantial evidence and I want you to know there are people in jail today on circumstantial evidence. Ordinary citizens, their lawyers and the courts throughout the land act on circumstantial evidence every day. The President had and has agents, confidants, and employees. In this debate, we have been shown the problems of agency and respondeat superior. I sometimes think that we might he convinced that the head of General Motors does not make motorcars. But yes, Virginia there is a law of agency and it applies to the President as it does to you.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
William Hungate (D Missouri). Now direct from the President's own transcripts and in his own words. This is at 8:55 a.m. this conversation began on April 14, 1973, in the Executive Office Building, the President, Haldeman and Ehrlichman. The President speaks, "Lovely wife and all the rest. It just breaks your heart. And say this, this is a very painful message for me to bring, I've been asked to give you, but I must do it and it is that. Put it right out that way. Also, I would first put that in so that he knows I have personal affection. That's the way the so-called clemency's has got to be handled. Do you see, John?" Ehrlichman replies, I understand.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
William Hungate (D Missouri). Later in the same day in a conversation taking place at, beginning at 11:22 p.m., the President says, One point. You are going to talk to Dean? Ehrlichman, I am. President, What are you going to say to him? Ehrlichman, I am going to try to get him around a bit. It is going to be delicate. The President, Get him around in what way? Ehrlichman, Well, to get off this passing the buck business. President, John, that s Ehrlichman, It is a little touchy and I don't know how far I can go. President, John that is not going to help you. Look, he has to look down the road to one point that there is only one man who could restore him to the ability to practice law in case things go wrong. He s got to have that in the back of his mind. Ehrlichman, Uh, hun.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
William Hungate (D Missouri). Later in the same conversation in response the President says, Well, with Dean I think you can talk to him in confidence about a thing like that, don't you? He isn't going to Ehrlichman, I m not sure. I just don't know how much to lean on that reed at the moment. President, I see. Ehrlichman, But I will sound it out. President, Well, you start with the proposition Dean, the President thinks you have carried a tremendous load and his affection and loyalty to you is just undiminished. Ehrlichman, All right. President, And now let's see where the hell we go. Ehrlichman, Uh, hun. President, We can't get the President involved in this. His people, that s one thing. We don't want to cover up, but there are ways. And then he's got to say, for example? You start with him certainly on the business of obstruction of justice. Ehrlichman, That's right. President, Look John, we need a plan here. And so that LaRue, Mardian and the others, I mean. Ehrlichman, Well I am not sure I can go that far with him. President, No, he can make the plan up. Ehrlichman, I will sound it out.
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
William Hungate (D Missouri). Now, on page 115 of the transcripts of eight recorded Presidential conversations on the date of March 21st, 1973, the President says, "Well, another way, another way to do it then. Bob, " Mr. Haldeman is there, "is to, and John realizes this, is to uh continue to try to cut our losses. Now, we have to look at that course of action. First, it s going to require approximately a million dollars to take care of the jackasses that are in jail. That could be, that could be arranged." Haldeman or Dean, you ve got an option there, "Yeah." President, That could he arranged. But you realize that after we are gone, I mean, assuming these [unintelligible] are gone, they're going to crack, you know, what I mean? And that'll be an unseemly story. Eventually, all the people aren't going to care that much. Dean. That's right, it's President, People aren't going to care. Dean, So much history will pass between then and now. President, In other words, what we're talking about is no question. Peter Rodino (D New Jersey). The gentleman has consumed 5 minutes
Watergate Impeachment Hearings. House Judiciary Committee, July 27, 1974.
Peter Rodino (D New Jersey). The gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Sandman, is recognized for 5 minutes in support of the amendment. Robert McClory (R Illinois). Will the gentleman yield to me for 1 minute? Charles Sandman Jr. (R New Jersey). I yield to the gentleman from Illinois. Robert McClory (R Illinois). I hope that this part of Article I will be stricken. I think that this above anything else perhaps demonstrates the contradictory evidence which is presented here and with the supposition that somehow this is clear and convincing proof. The President in this conversation to which Mr. Hungate referred used the expression "best wishes and gratitude" and that s going to be inferred and interpreted as clemency. I think the only true subject of clemency was the one with Colson following Mrs. Hunt's death which is perfectly understandable when Hunt's wife had been killed and he was suffering from that loss and about to go to jail. The subject of clemency would be discussed with Mr. Colson and in that context. And it seems to me to stretch that into an Article of Impeachment against the President is completely unsupported whatsoever. I thank the gentleman for yielding.