Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, July 30, 1974 (1/2)
Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, July 30, 1974 (1/2)
[00.49.19] DUKE asks WILL about unconfirmed reports that some REPUBLICANS have been asking NIXON to allow a Pro Forma vote for IMPEACHMENT in the interest of saving REPUBLICAN PARTY credibility down the road, as a "recognition of reality". WILL says that such a course of action is not going to happen, because "recognizing reality is not the White House's strong suit." NIXON should not be concerned about "getting REPUBLICANS off the hook". LEHRER interrupts to call on LEWIS with Rep. SANDMAN LEWIS asks SANDMAN if he has any idea who will manage the debate for each side in the HOUSE VOTE. SANDMAN says he has no idea, that the speaker will appoint the managers on the recommendations of both parties. LEWIS asks if he has any suggestions on the matter. SANDMAN declines to comment, it's not his role. LEWIS turns to the coalition behind ARTICLES I and II. Asks how/when the bipartisanship fell away to allow the Pro-NIXON side to win a vote. SANDMAN says that Rep. RAILSBACK would be in a better position to say since RAILSBACK worked with the PRO-IMPEACHMENT side on the first two articles. LEWIS asks for an assessment of the President's chances in the HOUSE. SANDMAN says if the vote was today, NIXON would be impeached, but at least 30 days lie between now and the vote, and a lot could change. LEWIS asks what kind of things could happen to save NIXON. SANDMAN says that there could be a realization that the committee has been rushing to judgement on shaky evidence, and that the stakes are too high to justify a vote for impeachment on "circumstantial" evidence. LEWIS mentions that the WHITE HOUSE referred to the JUDICIARY COMMITTEE as a "KANGAROO COURT", asks for his opinion on that matter. SANDMAN says he does not think that attack is justified, in fact it disturbs him, because he truly believes in the effort made by Chairman RODINO to conduct fair hearings. Although he's not happy with the results thus far, he accepts that as the course of events in politics. Notes that NIXON's lawyer was given a chance to present a defense to the committee, and did a good job of it, and that witnesses favorable to NIXON were called. Says it's a shame that the testimony of the witnesses was not public, as the political outcome may have been changed. LEWIS asks if the article on TAX FRAUD is legitimate grounds for IMPEACHMENT. SANDMAN says emphatically not, and that he hopes an IRS memorandum absolving NIXON of any FRAUD penalty is made public through the debate. LEWIS asks didn't the IRS ask the Grand Jury to investigate NIXON'S taxes? SANDMAN replies that the IRS could ask a grand jury to investigate anyone's taxes, that does not amount to proof or to an impeachable offense. [cut DUKE/LEHRER in studio--cut committee bench, DUKE notes the committee seems about ready--cut MURPHY and WILL in studio] DUKE asks WILL what he sees as the White HOuse strategy. WILL replies that as far as he can tell, the strategy is to delay the process until after the election, in hopes of favorable changes in the political waters, or perhaps the procedural issue of whether a BILL OF IMPEACHMENT that sits in the SENATE can be sustained after the CONGRESS that voted it changes, or whether the BILL would have to be scrapped and a new one debated. WILL says he doesn't believe that it will go so slowly. The WHITE HOUSE'S dilemma is clear in the words of Rep. SANDMAN, that if the vote were held right now, NIXON would lose, but that there is time for something to happen to change the situation. New tapes are coming out, but no one believes that NIXON would have fought so hard to keep the evidence hidden unless it was extremely incriminating. Further, the trial in September of WATERGATE defendants EHRLICHMAN and HALDEMAN will not help the President's case. It's possible that faced with long prison terms, one or more of the defendants might start to squeal. Finally, states that DC is crawling with investigative reporters who all think there are more "smoking guns" to be found. WILL says that he agrees with SANDMAN that things could change, but he can't think of any possible POSITIVE change that could happen from NIXON'S standpoint. LEHRER says it must be pointed out that the WHITE HOUSE TAPES, numbering 64 which are to be given to Judge Sirica, will be turned over to Special Prosecutor Jaworski after inspection by SIRICA, and may or may not ever be given to the JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. DUKE says this is true in a legal sense, but the whole history of WATERGATE has been a history of LEAKS to the press of information damaging to NIXON. LEHRER states that there is no question the first release of WHITE HOUSE TAPE transcripts hurt NIXON terribly, both as evidence and by revealing the petty, vulgar, venal tone of NIXON's White House m.o., but speculates that the next batch of tapes could not have the same shock value, but only be of use in terms of evidence. WILL concurs, saying that the shock value has eroded. However, says WILL, he doesn't think that public opinion matters at this stage, as many Congressmen have gotten better at reading the evidence. Increasingly, the majority of people who don't have access to the evidence leaves a gap between the people and the Congress in understanding of the issues. This may be dangerous, but it's inevitable. LEHRER asks if others have been struck by the committee members' grasp of points of fact in the evidence in heated arguments. WILL replies that the JUDICIARY COMMITTEE is not representative of the whole HOUSE, and a substantial portion of the HOUSE would be incapable of following the story at all. Offers a story for comparison, of how Rep. LOTT was in the past highly ignorant of the charges brought against VP AGNEW. Argues that LOTT is well informed about NIXON, because now it's his business, but other members of Congress probably don't take such care when they are not involved. [cut committee room] LEHRER [v.o.] asks WILL if it is not true that the JUDICIARY COMMITTEE will have an important role in the HOUSE VOTE because they will be far and away most knowledgeable about the case. WILL replies that most Congressmen are generally wholly unconversant with legislation prepared by Committees, so ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT proposed by the JUDICIARY COMMITTEE will have a certain momentum when they get to the HOUSE FLOOR. [RODINO gavels] [01.03.57--TAPE OUT]