August 4, 1994 - Part 9
August 4, 1994 - Part 9
(19:35:19) Mr. ICKES. Senator, may I respond? Senator DOMENICI. That's the question. Answer it. Mr. ICKES. May I respond? Senator DOMENICI. Of course. Answer it. Mr. ICKES. First of all, you stated, I think, earlier in your long statement that Mr. Altman and I had gotten together on this testimony. That is absolutely untrue, Senator. I've never discussed with Mr. Altman this testimony or anything about it, point one, and I want that very clear for the record. Number two--number two, Senator, this statement that you've referred to--one can quibble about the words that were used, but the fact of the matter is there is a distinction, and I have made that distinction both in my testimony here today and in my open- ing statement, between a final determination as whether to proceed with a lawsuit, and there are a number of considerations, and the 423 lawyers on this panel know that. One is cost. Two is possibility of outcome. Three, when you're dealing with a Federal agency, presumably there's a chain of command you have to go through before those final decisions are made. They often take time. That is different, Senator, from having enough evidence to file a lawsuit to preserve a claim. So that is what I was talking about. I think I made that very clear both in my testimony here today and in my opening statement. And the final point, Senator, I was never asked the follow-up questions by Counsel. Senator DOMENICI. Mr. Ickes, do you have any idea how Roger Altman could be so certain before us that you were going to disavow your earlier statement about what was said with reference to the status of the preparation of the lawsuit? Where might he have Mr. ICKES. Senator, you'll have to ask Mr. Altman that. I did not hear his statement. I did not watch the proceedings. I don't know what he said, but I do know one thing and I've stated it several times before this hearing, that during the February 2nd meeting, it's my clear understanding from what Mr. Altman said that he was going to follow the recommendation of the staff attorneys. So while he was still technically the acting head or whatever his position was of the RTC, he basically, in my view, had taken himself out of the decisionmaking chain with respect to the Madison inquiry. Senator KERRY. Would my friend yield? Senator DOMENICI. Let me state one further thing. See if this is correct. You had a chance to correct this deposition, did you not? Mr. ICKES. I had a chance to correct it. I saw no need to correct it, Senator. Senator DOMENICI. And you had what some people think is the best lawyer in the United States on defense matters representing you, and you did not see fit to change this record with reference to this protective suit that you didn't tell us about? Mr. ICKES. Senator, I wasn't asked that question and I made clear in my opening statement the distinctions. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Domenici--- Senator DOMENICI. Is my time up? The CHAIRMAN. Time is up, but there will be another round for You to pursue this as much as you care to. Senator DOMENICI. I surely want to ask Mr. Ickes exactly what he considered the head of the RTC to be at that point. He maintains that he apparently was a figure head and I don't think they were treating him as a figure head. I think that's a very, very important issue for us to find the answer to. Mr. ICKES. Senator, I want to make two additional points, if I 'nay. My contemporaneous notes, which are on file with the Committee and are attached, I think, to my opening statement, made clear that one of the alternatives open to the RTC was to commence litigation to preserve claim, number one. Number two, I've been informed by my attorney that the only corrections we were Permitted to make on the record were typographical. 424 Senator KERRY. Can I point out to my friend from New Mexico, Senator Senator DOMENICI. Let me say that's not how we understand the depositions, and we'll just ask that question later on. You were given time to correct this record, not just to correct typographical errors. The CHAIRMAN. Before calling on you, Senator Kerry Senator DODD. What's the answer to that? Senator D'AMATO. There are Counsel here. Is that true? Mr. PODESTA. That was not my understanding. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Mine neither. senator DODD. What's the answer to the question? senator D'AMATO. What was the limitations as it relates to notes or corrections of records? We have both Counsel here, Majority. There's no limitation as it relates to corrections. Counsel said that they're on the record. It is said that if someone wants to correct the record and it's substantive, he may be redeposed on that change. There is no limitation, nothing about that you can make just typographical corrections, and as it relates to notes, the record shows very clearly that the notes were available.