August 4, 1994 - Part 9
August 4, 1994 - Part 9
(19:15:22) Senator HATCH. I do have one follow-up and I'll have to do the rest later. The CHAIRMAN. I will protect your time later, so it's not as if you will not have other opportunities. Senator HATCH. I appreciate that. Mr. Stephanopoulos, is it your testimony under oath before the Congress that you never told, requested, asked or suggested that Mr. Steiner or Mr. Altman find a way to fire or get rid of Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't remember saying anything like that at all. 417 Senator.HATCH. Do you deny that you said anything like that or had any conversation along those lines? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I have testified that I had a conversation asking how Jay Stephens came to be hired. I have testified that I got angry during that conversation. Senator HATCH. You don't have a recollection, but do you deny it? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Again, I have no recollection of saying anything like that in the conversation. Senator HATCH. I've got to tell you that saying I don't remember, I don't have a recollection doesn't suffice because this is an important matter. If you hadn't done such a thing, you would certainly know it. Had you done such a thing, you would certainly remember. I don't want to hold people to absolute recollection Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I know that I never directed anyone to take any action to impede an investigation. Senator DAMATO. That's not the question. You've been ducking this question now and ducking it and ducking it Senator DODD, He's answered the question. Senator DAMATO. No, he has not. Senator DODD. I think he has. Senator DAMATO. He has not. He's suggesting, but he hasn't answered the question. Senator DODD. Let him answer the question again. Senator HATCH. Let me put it one more time and you say whatever you want to. I want you to search our memory and I want to ask you one more time, under oath, did you ever tell, request, ask or suggest that Mr. Steiner or Mr. Altman or anybody else for that matter, find a way to fire or get rid of Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I never directed anyone to impede with that investigation in any way. Senator HATCH. Did you ever ask Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I never directed anyone to do anything like that. I have testified to my conversation. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Dodd. Senator DODD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me just quickly ask by the way, what is Mr. Stephens doing today? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. He's investigating the matter of Madison Guaranty. Senator DODD. So he's still on the job. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes, sir. Senator DODD. I have three areas of concern, Mr. Chairman, that I think these witnesses can be of help to us. The first is the socalled pressure issue. I hate to use those words, but those seem to be the words that have become operative in regard to Mr. Altman. The second issue that I want to pursue is with you, Mr. Ickes, regarding the February 2nd meeting and the issue of what Mr. Altman said in that meeting regarding the statute of limitations and the date of February 28th, the date when the statute would run out. The third set of issues that this group of four witnesses can be of help with, is the issue of Mr. Altman's testimony before this Committee on the 24th of February and the issue regarding the ab- 418 sence of any reference to the recusal issue and the two other meet ings that occurred. So those are the three sets of issues. Quickly with regard to the first one, the so-called pressure issue, I'll ask all of You if You want to just quickly comment on this. I'm looking at a letter written that's been provided to us, from Mr. Altman to the President of the United States, and I gather it was sent on February 25th or there abouts. I won't read the whole letter, Mr. Chairman. I'll ask that it be included in the record. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it's so ordered. Senator DODD. In referencing the February 2nd meeting, Mr. Altman says to the President "the decision to have that meeting with your staff was dumb, and I take full responsibility for it." Let me ask the witnesses, is there any doubt in any of your minds that the holding of that meeting-I don't know if I want to use the word "dumb" or not, Mr. Altman's word, but it was certainly a mistake Mr. Lindsey. Mr. LINDSEY. I wouldn't disagree with Mr. Altman's assessment, Senator DODD. Mr. Podesta. Mr. PODESTA. I agree with Mr. Cutler and Mr. Altman. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I wish it hadn't happened. Mr. ICKES. Likewise. Senator DODD. Let me say on this point, Mr. Chairman, because we've heard a lot of testimony back and forth on this issue, and I fully respect that different colleagues can arrive at different conclusions about this. I think it's worthwhile to note for those who may not be as familiar with who Mr. Altman is and his background, that he had been confirmed by the Senate, worked in a previous Administration in the 1980's, spent some 11 or 12 years on Wall Street as an investment banker, and had come back into this Administration. He is 48 years old; he's not 28. He's an adult, and has been through a number of different processes. A lot of things can happen, and a lot of people know this person. I think I've met him twice, frankly.