August 4, 1994 - Part 9
August 4, 1994 - Part 9
(19:10:01) Now, that's Tuesday, August 2nd. The third one was the one that we read here which came from the diary of Mr. Steiner. "After Howell Rains from The New York Times called to say that they were going to write a brutal editorial, Roger Altman decided to recuse himself. Harold and George then called to say that BC"- --Bill Clinton I guess-was furious. They also asked how Jay Ste- 415 phens, the former USA, 'U.S. Attorney,' had been hired to be Outside Counsel in the case. Simply outrageous that RTC had hired him, but even more amazing, when George then suggested to me that we needed to find a way to get rid of him, persuaded George that firing him would be incredibly stupid and improper," Now, do those three refresh your recollection at all with regard to these matters? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Well, there's nothing new there, sir. I would just say in all three instances, first of all, I had never directed anyone at the RTC to do anything, just get that down as a fact. Number two, as I read Mr. Altman's Senator HATCH. You did talk to Mr. Altman. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. As I read Mr. Altman's two pages here, what he seems to be saying is that simply bringing up the subject of Jay Stephens in any way was unwise. I understand his feeling there, but I certainly didn't direct anybody to do anything. I don't know when the conversation with Ms. Hanson and Mr. Steiner occurred, so I can't respond to it in any way. What I can say, it may have happened before he ever talked to me for all I know. I just simply don't know. Senator HATCH. Was somebody else at the White House who did these things? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Again, I had one brief conversation with Mr. Steiner about this subject. What 1 would go on to say is I've never met Ms. Hanson. I've never directed or asked her to do anything. I never met Ms. Kulka. I never directed or asked her to do anything. I have never directed anyone to do anything of this kind. I did grant that I got angry about Jay Stephens when I asked how he was hired. I did get angry. I testified to that, I've said that in public dozens of times. I've said it under sworn testimony several times as well. And I would point out that all of these people that you point out have given sworn testimony to the Office of Government Ethics, to the Special Counsel Mr. Fiske, to the House Committee on Banking, to the Senate Committee on Banking, all of them Senator HATCH. Let me interrupt you there. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Let me finish my sentence. The Office of Government Ethics found no ethical violations and Mr. Fiske found no criminal violations of any way. So the suggestion that in any way I did direct anyone to do anything like this is simply wrong. Senator HATCH. Mr. Stephanopoulos, the fact of the matter is that these questions weren't asked by Special Counsel, and I'm asking them. I've asked them throughout this proceeding because I'm concerned about what happened. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Mr. Fiske asked me all about this area. Senator HATCH. Frankly, it looks to me like dissembling. Somebody is lying here. Either Steiner is lying or Altman is lying or Ms. Hanson is lying or somebody else. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't agree with that, sir. Senator HATCH. Let me just say this: I'm not reaching any conclusions, but have you-did you or Mr. Ickes ever review Title 18 USC 1505? That's the Federal Obstruction of Justice statute. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Mr. Fiske fully reviewed it and found absolutely no 416 Senator HATCH. Did you and Mr. Ickes review it together? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No, sir. Senator HATCH. They could all three be lying, I suppose. That' what's bothering a lot of us up here. There are all kinds of inconsistencies. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. There are no inconsistencies in my state- whatsoever. Senator HATCH. There sure is between these three things what you're saying here today. And I don't know who's telling the truth here, but somebody is not telling the truth. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Mr. Fiske asked all of these people all of these questions, sir, and he found absolutely no criminal violation. All of these questions have been covered Senator HATCH. I submit to you that Mr. Fiske did not do a good job in this area and he didn't ask some of these questions and he didn't go into it and pursue it the way he s hould have pursued. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't know how you know that. Senator HATCH. How do you know it? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I was asked questions by Mr. Fiske. Senator HATCH. What bothers me is we're asking the questions and we're getting the answers, except you deny it. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I give you my testimony as I've always done. Senator HATCH. Mr. Stephanopoulos, let me say this. Joshua Steiner has testified that sometime during the week of February 14th, he received a telephone call from John Podesta or from Mr. Podesta's assistant, Todd Stern, regarding the RTC's hiring of Jay Stephens. When did you first learn about the hiring of Jay Stephens? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Much later than that. Either the 24th or the 25th. Senator HATCH. It was at or near the time these calls were made? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes. Mr. PODESTA. Senator, I feel compelled to correct the record. Senator HATCH. Sure. I'd feel glad to have you do it, John. Go ahead. Mr. PODESTA. I did not learn of Mr. Stephens' hiring until, at the earliest, the night of the 24th or the morning of the 25th, so I do not believe that Mr. Steiner's testimony can be correct on that point. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hatch, the time has run. If you had one follow-up right here, I would certainly permit it.