August 4, 1994 - Part 9
August 4, 1994 - Part 9
(19:05:46) Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. I appreciate that. Now, the final question, and again I would put this question with regard to each member and it's a generic question, but I think it's important, again, just to make sure that from your perspective this issue has been covered. The White House Counsel, as you know, issued a series of ethics memoranda detailing the procedures that White House staff should follow when contacting members of other Executive Branch agencies. And I would ask each of you', did you follow those procedures in this case? Mr. ICKES. Well, I think, Senator, that as Mr. Stephanopoulos and I have discussed earlier that in some cases, we should have gone through the White House Counsel, did not, but the fact is we should have done it. But I think that there was an explanation for that, but the fact is I don't think that we followed them to the letter and the spirit in each and every case. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Madam, I think we tried to follow them. I think I've learned two big things in this case. Number one, do your best to control your temper at work and, number two, whenever something like this comes up, go to the Counsel before you make any phone calls at all. Mr. PODESTA. Senator, I believe I was in compliance with those memoranda. Mr. LINDSEY. I was, Senator. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Thank you very much. I believe the record will show that you were also and I appreciate it. I have' no further questions, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Senator D'AMATO. Senator Hatch. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hatch. Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to continue on where we were talking, Mr. Stephanopoulos. You said you weren't familiar with the sworn tes- 414 timony before the Committee about your efforts to get the RTC to fire- Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I made no efforts, sir, Senator HATCH. Well, about accusations that you made efforts to get the RTC to fire Mr. Stephens. Let me review it with You and we'll put it to bed. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Sure. Senator HATCH. This is Ms. Hanson and this is in the U.S. Senate transcript of hearings before the U.S. Senate hearing on the Whitewater matter. This is Monday, August 1st, Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. May I see that, sir? May I have a copy in front of me? Senator HATCH. I don't have a copy Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I'd like to look at the whole page to make sure of the context. Senator HATCH. I'll send it to you. "Senator HATCH. In fact, Mr. Steiner told you the people at the White House wanted to see if they could get rid of Jay Stephens; isn't that correct? "Ms. HANSON. That is correct. He did say that. He said what I recall saying is do you believe they wanted to see if they can get rid of Jay Stephens." The second one is also the transcript of hearings, our hearings here, and this is Tuesday, August 2-he's got it. I didn't tell you the page, though, on that. Did they give you the page? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. What page is it? Senator HATCH. Page 404, at the bottom. The one I'm referring to now is, if you have a copy of it, it's Tuesday, August 2, 1994, on page 436. Actually, it starts on page 435. It's the bottom line on page 435. Are you with me on that? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No, not yet, sir. Hold on. Senator HATCH. Bottom line on page 435, where I'm asking a question. "Senator HATCH. And in fact, you said to Mr. Steiner words to the effect that those guys at the White House must be crazy to try and fire Mr. Stephens; right? "Mr. ALTMAN. I don't remember my exact words, but I told them I thought it was an unwise thing to have done. "Senator HATCH. That pretty well sums it up. "Mr. ALTMAN, The essence of what you said is what I felt. "Senator HATCH. And you were referring to Harold Ickes and Mr. Stephanopoulos when you made that statement. "Mr. ALTMAN. Not as human beings. I have the highest regard for them. I thought bringing that subject up"-and I apparently interrupted him. "Senator HATCH. I'm not trying to get you in trouble I want to get the facts down as far as I can. Were you referring to anyone else besides Ickes and Stephanopoulos? "Mr. ALTMAN. No, sir."