August 4, 1994 - Part 9
August 4, 1994 - Part 9
(18:30:20) Senator HATCH. As far as you're concerned, you didn't say it, then? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. As far as I'm concerned, I have no memory of it and I gave you my testimony about the conversation, I would also point out that Mr. Stephens is still, of course, clearly investigating this case. Senator HATCH. Do I take that as a "no" or is it a "maybe" or is it "I just don't remember." Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. This was a very short conversation, sir, in the middle of a very busy day. Like a lot of your staffers, I have to go from a lot of issues to the other. I was at work at 6:00 that morning, dealing with questions on the Hebron massacre, and working all day long. I don't remember an awful lot about that conversation, as I testified. I don't remember saying anything like that. Senator HATCH. But you're not denying that it might have happened? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I simply don't remember saying anything like that at all, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hatch, I've let that go on so that we could bring it to a conclusion, but if you need additional time later., we'll come back for that purpose. Mr. LINDSEY. Mr. Chairman, I was just handed a note that said that I testified in response to Senator Faircloth that the Justice Department lawsuit against Jim McDougal was in 1979. 1 would like to correct the record and say that it was 1989. The CHAIRMAN. All right, so corrected. Let me also, while there's been an interruption, indicate with respect earlier to the conversation with Senator Faircloth and his questions about this memorandum that he was referring to, this is the memorandum of I March 1994 by Mr. Harold Ickes, the White House has released that entire memorandum publicly so that's out in the public domain. With respect to our charter here, in terms of our official records, we're Only going to include in our record the part of it that's within the scope of our resolution. That's the nature in which we honor our own boundaries here. That full memo has been released by the White House and it's out there for anybody's review. I just wanted ,to make sure that was clear. Senator Sarbanes. Senator SARBANES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 404 Mr. Ickes, after the meeting of February 2nd at which Altman discussed the RTC procedures, and the recusal and in which apparently-well, Maggie Williams is very clear that she, at the meeting, told him that she didn't think he should recuse himself or why was he doing that, she didn't see any need to do that. I take it that was the general sentiment of the other people in the meeting; is that correct? Mr. ICKES. Senator, I think-I don't recall specifically what Ms. Williams said. I think there is a difference between saying that he shouldn't recuse himself as opposed to saying there was no--that she didn't see a basis for his recusing himself. Again, I don't want to characterize her testimony or what she said because I don't recall specifically. From my own-I do-my best recollection of what I said was that based on his presentation of the factor for which he thought he might recuse himself or might not, it was my feeling that there was not, that he didn't have to recuse himself, but again we left it entirely up to him. And again I want to repeat that he, it's my recollection, that during that meeting he indicated that he was going to follow the staff recommendation in any event. Senator SARBANES. Now the next day there was a-Altman came over to the White House to tell people that he was not going to recuse himself-, is that correct? Mr. ICKES. That's my recollection, yes. Senator SARBANES. Now he says that he called you and asked that a meeting be set up with people for him to tell them that. Mr. ICKES. Senator, I don't recall Mr. Altman calling me on the 3rd. I do recall him calling me prior to the meeting of the 2nd to set up that meeting. He may well have called me to set up the meeting on the 3rd, I just simply don't have a recollection of it. Senator SARBANES. Well, now, Ms. Williams says he called her. We asked Altman about that and he said he called you, but you don't recall him calling you? Mr. ICKES. I don't, and he may well have, Senator, I'm not saying he didn't. I just don't have a recollection that he did. Senator SARBANES. Now that meeting took place in Ms. Williams' office? Mr. ICKES. To the best of my recollection, it took place either in her office or in the doorway. I only recall, as I've testified before, that three people participated: Myself, Maggie Williams and Roger Altman. There may have been others but that's my recollection. Senator SARBANES. And what happened? Mr. ICKES. As I've testified before, Senator, it was a very short meeting. I recall it being less than a minute and all I recall is that Mr. Altman informed me and I think Ms. Williams who were standing there that he had decided against recusal, and my recollection is that was the end of it.