August 4, 1994 - Part 8
August 4, 1994 - Part 8
(16:55:39) Mr. ICKES. I'm not sure of your question, Senator. Are you saying did he read from his talking points? Senator KERRY. No; I'm asking you whether or not you may have misinterpreted or may have not heard him or that your testimony may be incorrect. That's what you testified to, but in fact what you testified to may not be correct. I don't know. Mr. ICKES. Senator, all I can do is say I have testified to the best of my memory. Senator KERRY. Well, then, I guess the rest of the evidence will stand and we'll have to sift through it. You say you believe that's what the testimony was; is that correct? Mr. ICKES. Senator, all I can say, I've testified to the best of my memory with respect to that meeting. I do not recall word for word what people said. I can only-but I've testified to the gist of it. Senator KERRY. Is it possible you didn't hear it or had a problem hearing it or anything? Mr. ICKES. It is possible. I'm completely deaf in my right ear. I don't remember the positions that we were sitting in so is it possible? It is possible. Senator KERRY. I'm just trying to sort this out. This is a very, very important contradiction and choosing on how people choose to interpret what the Senator has put forth is a very legitimate line of questioning based on what's in front of the Committee. It is a really central issue that we have to try to determine. I think it is one of the only sort of remaining ones to try to sort through this. Let me shift for a moment. On the recusal issue, I think all of us are still wrestling with this question of a de facto recusal. I understand, Mr. Stephanopoulos, your opinion as of several weeks earlier was that you thought he ought to recuse? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I wasn't really involved in this, Senator. Senator KERRY. I realize that, but you had an opinion he ought to recuse, Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Since it's something I wasn't really involved in, I usually look to try to reduce controversy; anything that would distract from the President's major work, to do away with it. So if anybody asked me at the time, just recuse yourself, don't worry about it. Senator KERRY. Mr. Podesta, after Mr. Altman testified you were surely given the immediate sense that something was wrong, because a White House aid picked up a cellular phone right out Of the hearing and called to say this testimony is incorrect. Then you folks had the foresight and I might say the sense of difference between right and wrong to call Mr. Altman and say, hey, you've got a problem with your testimony, Accordingly, I would assume that when you saw the letter, you would have known that his attempt to clarify to the Committee was still lacking in the very point that you had first been notified about and were concerned about? Mr. PODESTA. Senator, I'm sure we're going to pursue this, but I didn't see that letter for some time after that, after it had occasion to be sent here, so I wasn't sure what was in that letter. Senator KERRY. When did you see it, just out of interest? Mr. PODESTA. I think in April or May. Senator KERRY. Fair enough. I appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Bond. Senator BOND, Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Podesta, you testified you were involved in the preparation of Roger Altman for the February 24 hearings; is that correct? Mr. PODESTA. No, that's the opposite of what I testified to. I testified that I was not involved in the preparation of Roger Altman for the preparation-for those hearings. Senator BOND. You were involved only in the follow-up after the hearings? Is that the extent of your activity with Mr. Altman as respects Mr. PODESTA. That's the only time I spoke with Mr. Altman and I did not-I was not involved in his preparation or, as it were, I testified to the two things I did that might be responsive to your question. One was I did have a conversation the week of the 14th with Mr, Levy saying Mr. Altman needed to be prepared to answer a question on recusal. I think that was in light of the fact that Ricki Tigert had been pressured the week before on that in this Committee. And second, I believe I said to Mr. Steiner, Mr. Altman had to be able to answer a question about whether he had contacts with the White House on Madison, and that he had to be able to answer a question with reference to that February 2 meeting. Senator BOND, Did you do any preparation or did you make any inquiries about the Madison matter prior to your discussions or in the course of your discussions with Mr. Levy or Mr. Steiner? Mr. PODESTA. No, Senator. About the Madison matter? No.