August 4, 1994 - Part 7
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:25:35) Senator DAMATO. He says that "even more amazing." In other words, you had expressed your concern that Jay Stephens was hired. Apparently he agreed because he says "simply outrageous," and he said, "but even more amazing is when George then suggested to me that we needed to find a way to get rid of him." Do you deny making that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't remember making that statement. As I said, Senator, in the phone conversation, I asked how Mr. Stephens came to be hired. I did believe it was a conflict of interest, and I did blow off steam. Senator DAMATO. I understand that, but that's not my question. My question is, do you deny making that question, yes or no? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. That's not the way I remember the conversation, Senator. Senator DAMATO. So the answer is no. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. That's not the way I remember the conversation. Senator DAMATO. Let me try again. This is a conversation that ou had with Mr. Steiner relative, number one, to Mr. Stephens being hired. And second, he says more amazing, when George then suggested to me that we needed to find a way to get rid of him, he goes on because you and Mr. Steiner are confidants; is that true? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. We're friendly. Senator D'AMATO. Friendly. You worked together over the years. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. At different times over the years, yes. Senator D'AMATO. "Persuaded George that firing him would be"--listen to this-"incredibly stupid and improper." Now, my question is, do you deny making the statement that we needed to find a way to get rid of him, "him" being Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. In the conversation I asked how Jay Stephens came to be hired Senator D'AMATO. I understand that. That came up before. Did you or did you not say to him that we have to find a way to get rid of him? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I have no memory of saying that, Senator. Senator DAMATO. You have no memory. Did he tell you that it would be "incredibly stupid and improper"? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Mr. Steiner told me that Mr. Stephens had been chosen by an independent board and that was the end of the conversation. Senator D'AMATO. That's not the question. Did he tell you that it would be stupid to fire Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't remember that at all, sir. Senator DAMATO. OK Mr. Ickes, reading your testimony in a sworn deposition that you've given to this Committee, I'm going to quote, and this is relative to the meeting on February 2nd, "I, among others, asked him"-"him" being Roger Altman---"a number of questions about the details of the statute of limitations and to some extent the progress of the inquiry being conducted by the RTC." Is that your testimony and is it true? Mr. ICKES. There were questions asked, yes, Senator. Senator DAMATO. So that's true. 368 Mr. ICKES. There were questions asked, Senator. Senator D'AMATO. No. Is that--I read you your testimony. Listen to your testimony. This is your testimony. "I, among others, asked him a number of questions about the details, that's you askingyou're saying that you "asked Mr. Altman details of the statute of limitations and to some extent the progress of the inquiry being conducted by the RTC." Is your testimony true? Mr. ICKES. If that's my testimony, I stand by it. Senator D'AMATO. You went on. You said "what he discussed there was," as Mr. Altman said, "that it was his view, based on information from his sources"---I don't think he delineated them, but I assumed one of them was the General Counsel of RTC--"that the investigation was going to take a longer period of time to conclude and that it might not be concluded until after the expiration of the statute of limitations." Is your testimony true? Mr. ICKES. If that is my testimony, I stand by it. Senator D'AMATO. That is your testimony. Let me continue. Mr. ICKES. Senator, could you tell me what page you're reading from? Senator D'AMATO. Yes, certainly. Page 121. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to need several minutes to complete this, but I assure my colleagues that I will be as indulgent, if not more, and will yield back time later on. I'd like to just finish this line of inquiry. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? The Chair hears none. Senator D'AMATO. Do you have that in front of you now? Senator KERRY. I'm not going to object, but I would like to have an understanding-obviously, there's a certain freshness to a certain number of questions here but I think there has also been a certain staleness to a certain number of questions with respect to the last panel, which I think we might agree went on too long, So I would hope we could all agree that once an area has been covered and we've essentially got the facts, none of us need to beat it to death.