August 4, 1994 - Part 7
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:20:40) The CHAIRMAN. I'm going to yield right now with just this one question. Did anybody speak up and support his intention to recuse himself? Mr. ICKES. Again, Senator, I don't recall any---- The CHAIRMAN. There were three other people there. There were three people, as I understand it; Nussbaum, Williams, yourself and Eggleston. That's the universe of people. Did anybody-you've said what you said. I think you said what Nussbaum said. Ms. Williams just testified that she thought it was not a good idea and so stated in the meeting. I can't, out of that group, find anybody who would have said yes, we agree with your decision. Mr. ICKES. First of all, Senator, I don't think that there had been a decision to agree with, number one. Number two is it is my very distinct recollection that everyone said there were different views given, but everyone said at bottom, Roger, it's up to you to decide whether or not you're going to recuse yourself. The CHAIRMAN. We can come back to that. Senator D'Amato. Senator D'AMATO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Stephanopoulos, Josh Steiner, in his diary, recalls-it says Roger Altman decided to recuse himself Harold and George then called to say that BC," Bill Clinton, "was furious." Do you recall saying that? Do you deny saying that? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Well, first of all, to the best of my recollection, Mr. Steiner was not on that phone call. That was a phone call to Mr. Altman, I believe, so I don't know why he wrote that in his diary. I would also add Senator DAMATO. I'm asking, do you deny it? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I certainly don't remember saying that. Senator D'AMATO. Do you deny saying that? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Again, I don't believe I said-I know at the time I had not spoken to the President about this matter. Senator D'AMATO. Do you deny making that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I simply can't deny what I don't remember. I have no recollection of that at all, Senator D'AMATO. You have no recollection-here's Roger Altman He's saying-and he's obviously indicated that Josh Steiner, at one time, I think, was his assistant; is that correct? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. He may have been at one time. At the time of this conversation he was Chief of Staff of the Treasury Department. 366 Senator D'AMATO. I understand that one time he was the assistant to Mr. Altman; is that true? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes, I believe he was. Senator DAMATO. And his notes say very specifically "Harold and George then called to say"--and this is Roger Altman after he decided to recuse himself to say that---"Bill Clinton was furious." Do you deny making that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I simply don't remember saying that at all, sir. Senator D'AMATO. You don't remember. You don't remember making that statement or you don't remember? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't remember saying that statement. It's highly unlikely that I made that statement because I had not spoken to the President that day about this. Senator D'AMATO. Let me continue. "They also asked how Jay Stephens, the former U.S. Attorney, had been hired to be Outside Counsel on this case. Simply outrageous that the RTC had hired him, but even more amazing, even more amazing when George then suggested to me that we needed to find a way to get rid of him." Now, did you make that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. As I said, Senator, in that phone call, I asked how Jay Stephens came to be hired. Senator DAMATO. Now, this is, a phone call that you made to who? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. This is a phone call to Josh Steiner, I'm not certain who called whom. Senator D'AMATO. Now, you're talking to Josh Steiner. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. This is a phone call with Josh Steiner. Senator D'AMATO. And he says even more amazing Senator SARBANES. Would you yield so I can be clear on one thing? Senator D'AMATO. Certainly. Senator SARBANES. The reference that the President was furious, which is in Steiner's diary, which came-according to Steiner, was in a conversation with Altman that you all had. You don't remember that, but it's that conversation; is that right? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I know I had two phone conversations that day, Senator. I don't know what he's referring to in the diary. I can't speak to that. I know that in the conversation with Mr. Altman, I did suggest to Altman that as a courtesy to the President, he write the President a note explaining his decision about the manner of the recusal. Senator SARBANES. But this conversation now Senator D'AMATO. The direct one. Senator SARBANES [continuing]. Is a direct one between you and Steiner. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes, there were two separate conversations. Senator SARBANES. I just wanted to be clear about that. Senator D'AMATO. So now we're focusing-my question goes to your conversation with Josh Steiner.