August 4, 1994 - Part 7
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(15:50:20) I am not an expert on such issues, and I think I expressed my view that this did not appear to me to necessitate his recusal. Others present expressed similar views. But we certainly conveyed to Mr. Altman that the decision was entirely up to him. At the close of the meeting, Mr. Altman indicated that he would further consider the issue and let us know what he had decided. Within a day or two, he informed me that he had decided not to recuse himself. At all times, I viewed the February 2nd meeting as wholly appropriate. Mr. Altman initiated the meeting. There were Counsels 356 present from both the Treasury Department and the White House, who never suggested that there was anything inappropriate or improper about the meeting. The expiration of the statute of limitations with respect to Madison was a matter of public debate. While opinions were expressed on the recusal issue, the bottom line is that the decision was Mr. Altman's to make. Under these circumstances, I believe the meeting comported with all applicable ethical and legal standards. Independent Counsel Robert Fiske, a Republican, has found that no laws were violated by this meeting, and White House Special Counsel Lloyd Cutler, as well as the Office of Government Ethics have confirmed that this meeting violated no ethical standards. Following the events of early February, to the best of my recollec. tion, the next time I had a discussion with Mr. Altman concerning these matters was on February 23rd, the evening before he testified before the Senate Banking Committee. I don't recall the specifics of the conversation but generally, but generally I recall Mr. Altman informing me that he was considering either before or as part of his testimony announcing his recusal from the Madison matter , and he wanted to know if I had any thoughts on that. I believe I asked him whether any circumstances had changed since early February that would cause him to change his prior decision not to recuse. I recall him saying they had not, And I recall telling him that it would be entirely up to him, but if I had any other thoughts, I would get back to him. He asked me to call him later that evening, after he returned from an event outside of his office. Rather than wait, I phoned Josh Steiner a short while after my conversation with Mr. r. Altman. I repeated what I discussed with Mr. Altman and asked Mr. Steiner to convey to Mr. Altman that I had no further thoughts on the subject and that it was entirely up to him whether to announce recusal the next day. During his testimony on the 24th of February, Mr. Altman did not say he was going to recuse himself from the Madison matter. As you may recall, the news accounts the day after Mr. Altman's testimony focused on his statement at the hearing that he had met with White House officials in early February to discuss the statute of limitations with respect to Madison. As a result, the White House was getting a number of press inquiries about the issue of contacts with Mr. Altman, as well as the fact that he had not recused himself, despite congressional demands to do so. And we were attempting to respond to those inquiries. At some point during the afternoon of February 25, George Stephanopoulos informed me that he had heard that Mr. Altman had recused himself from the Madison matter, and that he had done so in the course of a conversation with the editorial page editor of The New York Times, without notifying the White House in advance of his decision. Mr. Stephanopoulos and I called Mr. Altman immediately to confirm if that were true. Mr. Altman confirmed these events, and we expressed surprise that he had chosen to announce his recusal to a newspaper editor. We had simply been', caught off guard, especially since we had been fielding questions, from the press on these issues. 357 I am aware that Mr. Steiner's diary reflects that we indicated to Mr. Altman that the President was "furious" about these events. As far as I know, Mr. Steiner was not a party to that phone call, and I do not recall making any such statement. Moreover, I would not have any basis for making such statement because I had not spoken with the President between the time I learned that Mr. Altman had recused himself and the time when Mr. Stephanopoulos and I called Mr. Altman. In closing, I should also add at some point in time I recall briefly informing the President and Mrs. Clinton in separate conversations of the gist of the discussion at the February 2nd meeting. And that Mr. Altman had shortly thereafter decided not to recuse himself. I speak with the President and the First Lady several times a week about a number of matters, and I cannot recall the specifics about neither nor did these conversations or when they took place. I recall that of them had any particular reaction to the information; they ask me to take any action with respect to the recusal issue.