August 4, 1994 - Part 2
August 4, 1994 - Part 2
(10:15:37) Senator MACK. OK, let me just ask one more follow up to that. Ms. WILLIAMS, Yes, sir. Senator MACK. Are you saying to us that you were not at meetings during October and November of 1993, where the criminal referrals were discussed? 290 MS. WILLIAMS. That is what 1 am saying, sir, other than the Feb- ruary 2nd meeting, I had not been at any other meetings. Senator MACK. All right. At this time) Mr. Chairman, I would just yield the balance of time to Senator Gramm. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm. Senator GRAMM. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me go back to this question about the entry by Mr. Altman into his private diary, a diary that he never had any reason to believe was ever going to be made public, ever scrutinized, in which he says that you told him the First Lady was paralyzed. And let me say that how the First Lady felt on any day is none of our business in many ways, but it is only relevant to this issue, it seem's to me, because of this meeting in your office on February 3rd, Mr. Altman is asked, in sworn testimony, what did You understand Ms. Williams to be conveying when she talked about solving this problem, the problem about the First Lady. And Mr. Altman says, "Mrs. Clinton is upset. My understanding was that, or the context was that, Mrs. Clinton was so distracted or upset by Whitewater, she could not," and then he loses the focus. Mr. Altman had called on February 3rd and asked you to set up a meeting so that he could come over to the White House to tell people, after this meeting the day before, that he had decided not to recuse himself. He had come over to the White House on February 2nd to announce his recusal but now he changed his mind. Now he is coming back to say, I am not going to take myself out of the Madison investigation. He makes that announcement in your office. We have had this dispute about time, and your Counsel has told you that, well, isn't 10 seconds 10 minutes. I'll leave that alone for the time being, but let me ask you a question. Did you report this meeting, or did you ever have any discussion about the recusal issue, or about Altman's recusal decisions, with the First Lady? Ms. WILLIAMS No, sir, I did not. To the best of my recollection, I did not. Senator GRAMM. Never, ever, on any occasion, did you talk to the First Lady about Roger Altman's decision as to whether to stay in his position overseeing the Madison investigation or whether to take himself out of it? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir, I understand the question. To the best of my recollection, I did not. Let me refer you to my statement. In my statement, I said that I had made a conscious decision for myself and for other members of my staff that we would not spend our time discussing issues re lated to Whitewater with Mrs. Clinton unless we were fact-finding to respond to press inquiries. Let me tell you a little bit why I did this, so you will have some context and you can understand it. Whitewater certainly was a concern in the White House. it was a distraction, but it was not Senator GRAMM. Let me be sure I have asked the question both ways. Did the First Lady ever raise these issues with you? 291 MS. WILLIAMS. No, she did not. Sir, I would like to, if I may, Mr. Chairman, I would like to continue because I think it is really important for me to put this in some kind of context so you can understand the mindset that I was operating from. I knew that in the newspapers everyday, Mrs. Clinton and the President were being beaten up on about Whitewater. I also knew that even though Mrs. Clinton does not normally read the newspapers, it would be very hard to avoid them. I also knew that she was engaged in fact-finding with her personal lawyer, which was taking up a lot of time on Whitewater. I made what I believe was a sound and good management decision Senator GRAMM. Ms. Williams MS. WILLIAMS. Excuse me, sir, may I just finish this please? The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm, I want to let her finish. I'll restore your time, because she has asked to do this, and I think it is important that she have the chance to do so. Senator GRAMM. And let me say I understand you want to give us the context that is very important. You understand our frustration that we are on a clock? MS. WILLIAMS. I do. I understand that. I really do. But I think that this might save us time in the long run. Senator GRAMM. I do not want my mom to watch this and say I was not letting you talk. Ms. WILLIAMS. Right. My mom's right here and she does not want to let me talk. [Laughter.] Senator GRAMM. Now that we understand each other. The CHAIRMAN. Listen, why don't you have your mother call his mother. [Laughter.] MS. WILLIAMS. But I had made a very conscious, and I think a sound management decision about what it was I would discuss with Mrs. Clinton. I thought to myself, she has the newspapers, she has her personal lawyers, she has whoever else that she wants to talk to in the White House about it, be it the