August 4, 1994 - Part 2
August 4, 1994 - Part 2
(10:00:01)(tape #10098 begins) Ms. WILLIAMS. You would have to ask Mr. Altman why he called me. Senator GRAMM. Why do you think he called you? Ms. WILLIAMS. One, Mr. Altman and I talked frequently about Health Care, all the time, in fact. In fact, one of the things that I did both as an Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to the First Lady is I did a lot of meeting facilitation. I would try and get Senator GRAMM. Well, but he says in his diary that he had talked to you about Whitewater. He has in quotes that you had told him, "that the First Lady was paralyzed by it." (10:00:44) Ms. WILLIAMS. Senator Gramm, you must let me take one ques- tion at a time. If you want me to go back and talk about the diary, then I am happy to do so. If you want me to finish this one question Senator GRAMM. My one problem is that my light is about to turn red and I am not going to get back to ask a question for 2 hours. You understand that. Ms. WILLIAMS. I understand that, but my problem is I have to tell you what I know. The CHAIRMAN. We will give you a chance, when he finishes, to answer both questions. Senator GRAMM. If, on my time, you will go back and try to tell me why you think he, of all the people he could have called, why he would call the Chief of Staff of the First Lady to set up this meeting for him to come over and say, I am not taking myself out of the investigation of Madison? Ms. WILLIAMS. First of all, let me say that I am very uncomfortable speculating about why Mr, Altman called me, because it will only be speculation. But I will say that I talk to Mr. Altman regularly in the course, of Health Care. I will say that I am known to be a person who puts people together to facilitate meetings. I would also say that I have instant access to Mr. Ickes, Mr. Stephanopoulos, and also people in the Counsel's Office. 285 So I think it might have been as a matter of convenience kind of one- stop shopping, since this is what I had done (10:02:10)(tape #10087 ends) during my work on Health Care. In the second question what about the diaries? Senator GRAMM. Well, I was simply, in the second question, pointing out that you had had previous contact with Mr. Altman. He had referred in his diaries to Whitewater and had put in parentheses, as if it were a quote from you, about the First Lady being paralyzed by the Whitewater matter. Did that have anything to do with Mr. Altman wanting to deliver what at least he perceived that the White House would view as great and glorious news, I that he was not taking himself out of this investigation? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, first of all, you start, in my view, from the wrong premise, You start from the premise that I had conversations with Mr. Altman about Whitewater. Now, his diary may say that, but my testimony to you today is that I do not have recollections of those conversations, so I cannot even start from that premise. The CHAIRMAN. Your time is up here, and we can come back to this in another round. I do not know if you had a chance to see those diary entries, but have you? Because I want you to have them if you are going to be asked questions about them. Ms. WILLIAMS. They have been read to me, and I understand essentially what they say. The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Thank you. Senator Dodd. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR DODD Senator DODD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, Ms. Williams, I think your testimony has been excellent to this point and I would like to bring up one point immediately, because we had some testimony yesterday from one of the members of the Counsel's Office about the length of the February 3 meeting, and someone can check the record for me, but my recollection of less than 24 hours ago is that one of the attorneys said the meeting lasted something like 10 seconds. I do not know whether they were engaging in a little hyperbole to create the impression it was brief. You said no one sat down. That certainly gives me the impression that this was not a meeting of any length at all. Normally, people sit a little bit, So that meeting lasted how long, roughly in your mind, 10-we heard 10 seconds, you said 10 minutes. Obviously, someone is going to make a lot of this, I promise you. We might as well get to it right away, and it sounds to me like you are both probably within the ball park, It was a brief meeting? Ms. WILLIAMS. Brief would be a correct characterization of it. Senator DODD. No one sat down? MS. WILLIAMS. No one sat down. Senator DODD. You do not recall any conversation per se about it? Ms. WILLIAMS. No, I do not. 286 Senator DODD. OK, You clearly recall Mr. Altman calling you to set up that meeting? MS. WILLIAMS. I do recall that, Senator DODD. Mr. Altman says that he believed he called Mr. Ickes. However, I think he also said he could easily be wrong about that, in fairness to him here today. Although he believes he called Mr. Ickes, we can ask Mr. Ickes and I think probably close the loop on that this afternoon.