August 4, 1994 - Part 5
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:40:38) Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, I was outspoken on the matter, Senator BOXER. So that it is possible that someone hearing you, perhaps, wax eloquent on the point-and I think you can. wax eloquent on the point and you did before us several times-might have taken away an inference that the country's agenda could be 344 paralyzed if this thing continued? Not to quibble over a word, but in essence the country's agenda could be paralyzed or could be stopped cold because too many people were having too many meetings, as Mr. Cutler said, about this matter? Would that be a fair characterization? MS. WILLIAMS. Yes, Senator, that would be fair. Senator BOXER. Well, Mr. Chairman, I think we've gone around and about with these witnesses. I think that the President and the First Lady have been well served. In a closing question, I would say to Mr. McLarty, now that Mr. Panetta is Chief of Staff, have you shared any of the lessons that. you learned from this whole situation? I And you were very open and honest with this Committee in telling us you believe it should have been handled differently or better, in a more streamlined fashion. Have you shared those thoughts with Mr. Panetta? Mr. MCLARTY. Chief of Staff Panetta, of course, was involved in the White House as Director of OMB and I think that's one of the things we did very well. We've had several discussions, not just specifically about this matter, although it included that, but other operations, decisionmaking at the White House. Chief of Staff Panetta is a good Californian and he will be an able-he is an able Chief of Staff. Senator BOXER. In answer to my question, have you discussed some of the management tools that you have at your disposal, perhaps some ways to handle this type of an incident in a better way, an incident that occurred many years ago that happened before the President was President? Have you discussed perhaps some of your insights on how to better handle the situation? Mr. McLARTY. Yes, Senator, we have and also of course Mr. Cutler's report addresses that in a very specific way and outlines specific steps which have already been implemented at this point. Senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, I have to say one thing that I really learned today. As we seek to find the truth, it is worth noting that sometimes the truth is elusive because to one person, intense pressure is just a rough conversation. You know, I grew UP in New York, I grew up in Brooklyn and there's a way that people talk in New York and in Brooklyn, in the way they express themselves, that's a little bit different from the way people talk in Cali- fornia and now I'm a combination of both, so I don't know how talk. But the bottom The CHAIRMAN. I'd say there's a little of Brooklyn left. Senator BOXER. Well, they say you can never take Brooklyn out of the girl although you can take the girl out of Brooklyn. This is true. But I would say this: We have listened to Mr. McLarty. Indeed, I think all of us in this Committee, Republicans and Democrats, have probably spoken with Mr. McLarty. Mr. McLarty' as Chief of Staff, I would say you were as close to the President of the United States as you could get. Did you at that time speak with him every single day, would you say? Mr. McLARTY. Generally I did, if he were here. Senator BOXER. Probably a few times unless he was out of the country? 345 Mr. McLARTY. Unless he was traveling or something of that nature but generally every day. Senator BOXER. Tell me again, what did you say to Mr. Altman when he asked you about recusing himself from this issue? Mr. MCLARTY. I listened politely and encouraged Mr. Altman to make the decision he felt was the right one. Senator BOXER. Well, Mr. Chairman, that doesn't sound like intense pressure. It sounds like respect, it sounds like understanding. I thank you very much for your clear answers, both of you, and I am very glad that you both are where you are. The CHAIRMAN. I might just say before your time is gone, it also sounds like Mack McLarty. I think that advice he gave is consistent with at least the individual that I know him to be, so I'm not surprised that that would be his advice. Senator BOXER. And, Mr. Chairman, if I might say, it says a lot about Bill Clinton, who chose Mack McLarty. Mr. McLARTY. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Faircloth. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to follow up on Senator Hatch's line of questioning. On Tuesday, Roger Altman testified-this question is to you, Ms. Williams.