August 4, 1994 - Part 5
August 4, 1994 - Part 5
(13:35:27) What did Mr. Altman say about that process? MS. WILLIAMS. Well, from my testimony, and that quote, I believe, kind of summarizes it. Once again, let me tell you the gist of it, as I recall, was that the RTC staff, the process would be that the RTC staff would make a recommendation to him if he did not recuse himself or the RTC staff would make a recommendation to someone else in the RTC. That is essentially what I took away from the meeting. I was not focused on the details, but generally I understood what that meant. Senator DOMENICI. Did you pass that information on to the First Lady? Ms. WILLIAMS. No. I saw no reason to. Senator DOMENICI. But essentially your interpretation was that if Mr. Altman was still the head of the RTC, he would be the one making the decision as to whether they would be asked to waive the statute of limitations or not; is that correct? MS. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir, but let me clarify here. My understanding was, in addition, from Mr. Altman, was that whatever recommendation the RTC staff would make, he was likely to accept that recommendation. Senator DOMENICI. I understand. Ms. WILLIAMS. OK Senator DOMENICI. And that's what puzzles me so much. Why all the concern if in fact he had indicated they were going to make the decision and he wasn't? In your opinion, given what you heard and saw, why was the White House so concerned about his not recusing himself? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, sir, I won't speak to the opinions of others, but since I was in that meeting and I suggested by my question to Mr. Altman that it didn't make any sense to me, if he was going to accept the recommendation from good staff work, why he would recuse. To me it was just a commonsense question. Here he's to accept the recommendation. The RTC staff has been involved, they know what's going on and he is going to look to staff that has been involved to accept or-to accept or reject the recommendation. And his view was at the time that he was likely to accept whatever their recommendation might be. My questions sprang from kind of common sense, why would you have to recuse then? Senator DOMENICI. So you found out that he did in fact recuse himself later on? 343 MS. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I did. Senator DOMENICI. And I gather that you know that he recused himself after the statute of limitations had been extended? Ms. WILLIAMS. I believe I know that, now subsequently, yes. Senator DOMENICI. Thank you very much. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Boxer, Senator BOXER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I understand Senator Gramm's statement and please, someone correct me if I don't accurately recall it-he said that Altman "dealt with the criminal matters on the 29th meeting." Now, that was the meeting that was held on the Waco situation where Ms. Hanson has testified that she told Mr. Nussbaum that he was going to have to deal with press leaks regarding the criminal referrals. And Senator Gramm says Altman dealt with the criminal matters. I think it's important to note, number one, that Mr. Altman testified to us that he didn't send Ms. Hanson to that meeting. I think it's also important to note that Ms. Hanson said she never saw the criminal referrals, that she didn't present the criminal referrals to anyone and I think it's important to note that as far as I can tell no one that appeared before us with the White House or with Treasury ever saw the criminal referrals. Mr. McLarty, have you ever seen the criminal referrals? Mr. McLARTY. No, I have not, Senator Boxer. Senator BOXER. Ms. Williams, have you ever seen the criminal referrals? Ms. WILLIAMS. No, Senator, I have not. Senator BOXER. To your knowledge, has the President or the First Lady seen the criminal referrals, Ms. Williams? MS. WILLIAMS. No. To my knowledge, they have not. Senator BOXER. And how about you, Mr. McLarty? Mr. MCLARTY, To my knowledge, they have not. Senator BOXER. I want to go to Mr. Altman's diary one more time. Ms. Williams, what you have said is that you have no memory of saying to Mr. Altman, "The First Lady is paralyzed over Whitewater." Is that correct? MS. WILLIAMS. That's correct, Senator, Senator BOXER. And you have stated that you would not say that to anyone? Ms. WILLIAMS. I have stated that it seems inconsistent with who I am and how I operate to have said that. Senator BOXER. But you did tell this Committee, I thought in a very articulate way, that you told almost anyone who would listen who was within the Administration or very close to the Administration that you thought there was too much time being spent on Whitewater, that it was diverting the First Lady, the President, and the White House staff from the country's agenda that you seem to care very much about; is that correct?