August 4, 1994 - Part 3
August 4, 1994 - Part 3
(11:45:15) I believe that it was inappropriate for White House officials to express a view regarding the recusal of Mr. Altman, so I must put that on the table, Ms. Williams and Mr. McLarty, and to all of those who expressed this view, I think it was inappropriate-although, the truth is, Mr. Altman could discuss that issue with anyone that he wanted. That is my understanding of the law. It was perfectly fine. He could discuss it with anyone. But again we are looking at the atmosphere under which this conversation took place, which was described in Mr, Steiner's diary as "Intense pressure." Now I am trying to ask about people who were at the meeting, because we are trying to put ourselves at that meeting. Mr. Steiner was not at the meeting. He keeps being quoted as if he was there. You were there. Mr. Eggleston was there. Mr. Eggleston got complimented by almost everyone. He said he would not characterize it as intense pressure. My recollection from last night-and I think it is pretty sound-is that there were a lot of questions raised, and Mr. Nussbaum was not in a happy mood about it. 315 Is that your recollection of what happened during that period? I know you said you tuned out at a certain point. I think it would be kind of hard to tune out if Mr. Nussbaum had thrown a fit about the situation, but you tuned out. What do you remember, again, concisely? Would you say that you exerted intense pressure on Mr. Altman? MS. WILLIAMS. No, I did not exert pressure on Mr. Altman. I asked him a question. Senator BOXER. Now, Mr. McLarty, you were the Chief of Staff to the President of the United States of America. I have worked with you, and I know that when you wanted to make an opinion known to me you had your way of getting to the point and doing it. Now Mr. Steiner said that Mr. Altman was under intense pressure from the White House. Surely as Chief of Staff of the White House, if anyone represented "the White House," or "the President" in my mind it was you, more so than anybody else. Did you put intense pressure on Mr. Altman to recuse himself? Mr. McLARTY. No, Senator Boxer, I did not. Senator BOXER. What did you say to Mr. Altman when he told you he was thinking about recusing himself? Mr. McLARTY. I told him to make the---my advice to him was to make the judgment he thought was the right one. Senator BOXER. So you said, "Make the judgment you think is the right one," and Mr. Steiner writes that Mr. Altman was under intense pressure from the White House. I have never known you as a man to be dishonest, Do you have any reservation about what you told Mr. Altman? Do you remember it clearly that that is what you said? Mr. McLARTY. Yes, Senator, I remember it clearly. In my mind there was no way that Mr. Altman could have interpreted anything I said as any kind of pressure about his decision. Senator BOXER. And you were Chief of Staff to the President of the United States at that time. Mr. McLARTY. At that time I had the privilege to serve in that position. Senator BOXER. Now do you think Roger Altman, Mr. McLarty, is the type of man who could be easily intimidated? Mr. McLARTY, No, I do not. Senator BOXER. Ms, Williams, is your impression of Mr. Altman that he is kind of a weak-kneed guy who has not been around the block a few times? Or is this a man who has had some experience? Ms. WILLIAMS. That would be my impression of Mr. Altman, Someone who had some experience. Senator BOXER. OK. Well I think it is very important that this Committee, before it hangs someone on the basis of a diary, listen to the people who were involved in the discussion directly. I think that is the least that this Committee can do before we go out and make our pronouncements as to what we think went on. Mr, McLarty, in retrospect do you think it would have been better if all the questions on Whitewater and Madison Guaranty had been handled in a different way? 316 Mr. McLARTY. Oh, I think hindsight is always helpful in any decision, and I think the contacts could have been more clearly channeled through the White House Counsel's Office, in retrospect. Senator BOXER. Or perhaps, in my view, not gone to the White House at all. I mean, that is something Mr. MCLARTY. I think I said that in my opening statement, that in retrospect there were some things that you would have certainly tried to do differently. Senator BOXER. Mr. McLarty, did the President or the First Lady ever ask you to slow down the Whitewater investigation in any way? Mr. MCLARTY. No, they did not. Senator BOXER. Did the President or the First Lady ever ask you to beg Mr. Altman or ask Mr. Altman or exert pressure on Mr. Altman to stay in his position so that Whitewater would go away and not be an issue? Mr. MCLARTY. No, they did not beg me or ask me to do that. Senator BOXER. Ms. Williams, as Assistant to the President, did he ever discuss this matter with you and urge you to do all you could do to convince Mr. Altman not to recuse himself and to go easy on the Whitewater matter?