August 4, 1994 - Part 3
August 4, 1994 - Part 3
(11:30:24) Ms. WILLIAMS. Well Senator Shelby--- 310 Senator SHELBY [continuing]. Not thinking it would ever be coming up before the Senate Banking Committee? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, Senator Shelby, I cannot speak to what it was that Mr. Altman was doing, but I can speak to what I was saying, what I was doing, what I normally would not do. That is what I can speak to, my recollections, and I can speak to only my recollections. Senator SHELBY. Yes, ma'am, but you did say a few minutes ago that you had met and conferred with Mr. Altman on as many as 10, 15 occasions, mainly dealing in the Health Care area? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. So if he is recording this in his diary describing what was going on at the White House with Mrs. Clinton from what he perceived or what he picked up from you, and it was in the subject area of Health Care, it would be in keeping with his meetings with you, would it not-the subject of Health Care? Ms. WILLIAMS. The subject of Health Care? Senator SHELBY. Sure. Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes. Senator SHELBY. In other words, this was in the context of Health Care. "On Whitewater, Maggie told me that Hillary Rodham Clinton was paralyzed by it. If we don't solve this within the next two days, you don't have to worry about her schedule on Health Care" and so forth. In other words, the context of your conversation generally with him was Health Care. Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. And how it would affect, or how other things could affect the campaign for it. MS. WILLIAMS. Sir, I understand your question. I understand the logic of it. But that does not change my testimony with respect to my recollection of what took place. Senator SHELBY. Do you ever recall--or if you don't recall, is this phrase here, this sentence in keeping with something you may have said, that "HRC," Hillary Rodham Clinton, "doesn't want the Counsel poking into 20 years of public life in Arkansas"? Have you ever said, if not that, something like that? Ms. WILLIAMS. What I have said Senator SHELBY. Something he could interpret like that? Ms. WILLIAMS. What I have said, as I said before the House Committee, was that I have said that I believed that 17 years of Arkansas history was irrelevant to the President's agenda. That is what I have said. Senator SHELBY. So that he could have picked that up from what you said and written what he had in the diary. Ms. WILLIAMS. Sir, I am sorry; I really refuse to speculate as to how Mr. Altman arrived at that. Senator SHELBY. Well I will leave it up to the Committee. I mean, what you said referred to 17 years of Arkansas politics. We understand that. Then if he says HRC does not want Counsel poking into 20 years of public life, that is not far off. The sentences are not far off My time is up. 311 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Roth. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ROTH Senator ROTH. Mr. McLarty, yesterday I tried to ask a number of the members of the White House Counsel's staff about a telephone call that George Stephanopoulos made to Josh Steiner in the Treasury Department on February 25, 1994, and whether it violated White House Ethics Guidelines prohibiting contact by White House staff with investigative agencies on pending cases. I was not successful in getting anyone to answer my question, so I would like to pose the same question to you. First, do you agree that the Nussbaum memorandum of February 22, 1993, prohibited White House staff contacts with investigative agencies, including Treasury, about pending investigations on specific cases? Mr. McLARTY. I think the memoranda that you are referring to, Senator, outlines written or oral communications concerning pending investigations must be directed through the Counsel's Office. Senator ROTH. Yes. And there is no exception in that guideline, is there, on that matter? Mr. McLARTY. Without reading it closely, I am not aware of any exception. I think it speaks for itself here.