August 4, 1994 - Part 3
August 4, 1994 - Part 3
(11:25:32) Senator SHELBY. March 1993? Ms, WILLIAMS. Perhaps. Senator SHELBY. Had you dealt with him on more than this one occasion? MS. WILLIAMS. Yes, I have. Senator SHELBY. About how many times, in your best judgment, have you met and talked and dealt with Roger Altman? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, quite a bit. Senator SHELBY. From 1993 on? Would it be as many as, say, 10 or 15 times? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, Senator SHELBY. More or less? Ms. WILLIAMS. It could be, yes. Senator SHELBY. And were those meetings or dealings about various things dealing with the Administration? Ms. WILLIAMS. Generally our meetings were Health Care related Senator SHELBY. Health Care related? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, Sir. Senator SHELBY. The word "paralyzed"---and he is quoting that and attributing that to you. Do you believe that Roger Altman is an intelligent man? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, I do. Senator SHELBY. I think we would stipulate that. Do you know whether he has ever attributed, done an attribution to you or something else that was not true? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not know if he has done an attribution about me to someone else. I do not know that. Senator SHELBY. Have you used the word "paralyzed" in the context of a conversation with him? Did you, on this occasion? Ms. WILLIAMS. No, I did not, because I do not recall having a conversation with Mr. Altman. Second, because Senator SHELBY. You don't recall at all having a conversation with him on this occasion? MS. WILLIAMS. I do not, sir. Senator SHELBY. OK. Could you have had a conversation and not recalled it? Could there have been a conversation like this and you not recall it for various and sundry reasons? 309 Ms. WILLIAMS. I think that it is possible for a person not to have recalled it. I don't know if anyone here cae recall every conversa- tion they had on January whatever the date is, but I will say that what you do when you are trying to make a recollection, I believe, is you try and think about yourself. What would you do? What would you say? It gives you some sense about whether or not in an instance you would say that. I would not say that Mrs. Clinton is "paralyzed," one, because it just was not true. I look at her schedule. If this is the schedule of a "paralyzed" person, then she is in very good shape. Secondly, I would not discuss Mrs, Clinton's state of mind with anyone. That is what I know to be true about me. Senator SHELBY. Would you say, in describing the situation, if you do not want to claim ownership of the word "paralyzed" here, would you say she was deeply concerned? MS. WILLIAMS. Let me say that it would be unusual for a person who every day in the press was getting beaten up about a specific subject and a person who had to spend part of her time engaged in discussions with a private lawyer about things that happened 17 years ago, for this person not to be concerned. Senator SHELBY. "Deeply"? Deeply concerned? That is my phrase. MS. WILLIAMS. Mrs. Clinton did not express that to me, but I would have to be a blind person not to look at what was going on in the media and not to look at the time that she was spending with her personal lawyer not to know that this matter held some real interest for her. But let me go back to what I believe your question is. I do not recall having a conversation with Mr. Altman where I indicated that Mrs. Clinton was "paralyzed," for two reasons, and I will repeat them. One, it is not true she was paralyzed. Second, I know myself and I would not discuss Mrs. Clinton's state of mind. Now what I have volunteered to this Committee and to the House Committee is that during that period of time I certainly was outspoken in saying that I believed Whitewater was a distraction and that we needed to be about the business of the President's agenda. That is what I said. Senator SHELBY. If you didn't say that, or you have no recollection of saying that, or using that period, then do you believe that Roger Altman made this up and contemporaneously put it in his diary or scrap book? That would be sort of out of character for anyone would it not, to make up something like this that would be descriptive of what was going on, for example, at their house at that time, or his impression that he gathered from your conversation and write it down, put it in his diary or his scrapbook? Would that not be out of character for somebody to just make up something like that