August 4, 1994 - Part 3
August 4, 1994 - Part 3
(11:16:28) Hearings coverage resumes: Mr. Altman has denied tasking her, and that is one of the issues we are going to have to face-decide, as to who is telling the truth in that circumstance. That is why I asked the question, Now let us go to this first meeting, the one, Ms. Williams, where you were not quite sure why you were there, but you were asked to be there so you went there. I understand that that happens a lot, that people say we are having a meeting and you need to be there, and you have a very busy schedule and so you say, OK, I'll go, and pretty much find out what it is all about when I get there and not give it a whole lot of thought beforehand, 306 Is that a fair characterization of your attitude toward that first meeting? Ms. WILLIAMS. I did not know beforehand what the meeting was about, but I have to tell you I do not think it an unusual thing for me to be a participant in meetings at the White House. Senator BENNETT. No, I am not suggesting in any sense that it was unusual. Ms. WILLIAMS. OK. Senator BENNETT. When I say you did not know why you were there, it was not that it was unusual for you to be at a meeting that high powered, it was that you were not sure what the topic was going to be Ms. WILLIAMS. That is correct. Senator BENNETT [continuing]. And the impetus. Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, Senator. Senator BENNETT. In your deposition you used the phrase you "tuned out" of the meeting after the discussion of the recusal thing was started, and you referred to that in your testimony here today saying that you "went on to other things and started thinking about your next issue because you felt this one had been dealt with, and you say you do that from time to time. That is a great talent, by the way, that I think a lot of people would like to cultivate. But just to be sure the record is completely clear and a Rush Limbaugh or somebody does not try to mousetrap you later on, I would refer to your comment in the deposition that Mr. Nussbaum made some kind of dismissive comment to you which, according to you, and I am quoting from your deposition, "was because I was a woman." Do you remember that? Or do you want to clarify that in any way? I do not want to make a big thing about it, but I do want to get the record very clear as to your tuning out. Ms. WILLIAMS. Of course I do not want to clarify that, but I will since you asked me. [Laughter.] What I referred to in my deposition was that I understood a couple of things in the meeting. One, that was informational. I felt I had gotten the information I wanted. The other, because I am a person given to strong opinions and given to speaking them, after I had heard Mr. Altman say said that he would accept the staff recommendation I spoke up and I said 'Well, then why would you recuse yourself if you are going to go along with what the staff says, and that seems appropriate? And after I finished, I guess I thought that there would be much more conversation around what I had said, since I thought it was an interesting comment. And Mr. Nussbaum said, and I thoughtI took it a little bit dismissively-he said, "It'll be Roger Altman's decision, whatever." And I thought, you know, once again I am the only woman in the room. I have made a very interesting comment, I believe, and Mr. Nussbaum has said, "It is Roger's decision, anyway." Senator BENNETT. OK. Fine. Thank you. I think that clarification helps because it makes it less of an issue than it might be with someone who did not have that. 307 Let's go to the next meeting, then, where Mr. Altman called you and said, "Will you get some people together" and you got some people together.