August 4, 1994 - Part 1
August 4, 1994 - Part 1
(09:55:14) 283 Now, let us move to the first of the year. We are in a period where there is immense pressure on the Whitewater investigation with regard to the statute of limitations, which is about to run out. Roger Altman is concerned about people believing that there is something wrong with a very close friend of the President, himself being in charge of an investigation that might involve the President. He decides to recuse himself. We have all kinds of sworn statements that he decided to do it. He comes over to the White House on February 2 to deliver the message. He has a briefing paper saying he is going to do it. Yet he walks out of the meeting and he has not recused himself. Not one single person can recall anyone ever saying to him, do not recuse yourself. But in a diary that the Treasury Chief of Staff and sort of confidante of Mr. Altman is writing during the period, Roger- Altman is described as having originally decided to recuse himself. But intense pressure from the White House, Mr. Steiner then writes, at a fateful White House meeting with Nussbaum, Ickes and Williams, the White House staff told Roger Altman that his recusal was unacceptable. Obviously unacceptable that he take himself out of this Whitewater investigation, which is what recusal means. Again, in outlining the advantages and the disadvantages of the recusal, this same Chief of Staff puts on his computer, that the White House may feel defenseless prior to the appointment of a new CEO if Roger Altman left, stepped down, took himself out of the Whitewater investigation. Now, I assume, Ms. Williams, you do not recall anyone ever saying to Roger Altman that he ought not to recuse himself either? Ms. WILLIAMS. I believe in my testimony I indicated that I said why should you recuse yourself if you intend to accept the recommendation of the RTC staff, whatever that might be. Senator GRAMM- And in fact, we know from last night, that the President was upset when Roger Altman did recuse himself, be''cause the President felt he was being stampeded into it, though Roger Altman himself thought he should do it. Secretary Bentsen 'has told us he thought that Altman should do it. Now, he calls you up the day later, at least we think he does, land he says, I want you to set up a meeting. He is come on the 'road to Damascus. He has had a dramatic conversion. Nobody told him not to recuse himself, but he changes his mind for some reason. From the Treasury, Mr. Altman calls you up and says, I want to come over to the White House and tell people that I am not ,going to take myself out of the Madison investigation. I want you to get people together, he tells you, because I want to come over ,-there and tell them. Mr. Altman comes over to the White House, to your office. You gathered these people together. He sticks his head in the door and ,says, I have decided not to take myself out of the Whitewater investigation. You say that the meeting lasted 10 minutes. I talk pretty slowly. Mr. Altman's from New York. He talks real fast. There is a little problem there, but lot me ask you a question. Ms. WILLIAMS. Certainly. 284 Senator GRAMM. I do not think of you, as Chief of Staff for The First Lady, as being in the chain of command at the White House, Why would Roger Altman call the Chief of Staff of the First Lady and ask her to set up this meeting? MS. WILLIAMS. Well, first of all, let me try and explore with you a little bit your first premise, which is you do not think of me being in the chain of command in the White House. If I am an Assistant to the President, one of 17, when there are approximately, what, about a thousand employees in the Executive Branch, then clearly my position puts me, if not in the chain of command, certainly in an area where decisions that are being made might come to my attention. Senator GRAMM. But why you? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, Senator GRAMM. On this issue, on the recusal issue, which you say you were not even interested in, and I do not doubt that, why you? Why did he call you? Ms. WILLIAMS. You would have to ask Mr. Altman why he called me. Senator GRAMM. Why do you think he called you? Ms. WILLIAMS. One, Mr. Altman and I talked frequently about Health Care, all the time, in fact. In fact, one of the things that I did both as an Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to the First Lady is I did a lot of meeting facilitation. I would try and get Senator GRAMM. Well, but he says in his diary that he had talked to you about Whitewater. He has in quotes that you had told him, "that the First Lady was paralyzed by it."