August 4, 1994 - Part 1
August 4, 1994 - Part 1
(09:50:33) Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, it was not much of a meeting, quite frankly. People kind of drifted in. I remember it being around lunch time or lunch time for us. I do not know. I remember it being around lunch time and people kind of wandering in. I remember Mr. Altman coming in, standing near the door, having his briefcase in his hand, and saying, I just wanted to let you know I have decided not to recuse myself. And that is what I recall of that meeting. And then he left. Senator SARBANES. Did people say anything to him when he said he was not going to recuse himself? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not know exactly what people said. I do not have a recollection of what people said. Senator SARBANES. What did you say? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, I had already talked to Roger previously, since I had set up the meeting, and he said I have decided to recuse myself, and I am sure that I Senator SARBANES. Decided not to recuse. Ms. WILLIAMS. I am sorry, decided not to recuse myself, And I think Senator SARBANES. What did you say to him then? Ms. WILLIAMS [continuing]. I probably--- Senator SARBANES. This is on the telephone? MS. WILLIAMS. Yes. I probably said, OK, that sounds good. Because, of course, I had been a person at the meeting, the previous meeting who had said, if you are going to accept the recommendation of the RTC staff, which I think is a good thing to do, why then should you recuse yourself Senator SARBANES. How long did that meeting last? MS. WILLIAMS. Oh, not long at all. If it was 10 minutes, I would be Senator SARBANES. Ten minutes? Ms. WILLIAMS [continuing]. If it was 10 minutes, I would be Sur. prised. I remember that Mr. Altman had to get away. He had an appointment on the Hill and lie was hurrying off. It did not seem long. Senator SARBANES. So it is your recollection that that meeting lasted about 10 minutes? Ms. WILLIAMS. It is my recollection that it was not very long. I say 10 minutes because I cannot--everyone was standing is what I remember. It was not people sitting down, and I know that Mr. Altman had an appointment on the Hill that he was rushing to. Senator SARBANES. Well, there must have been some discussion then, if it lasted 10 minutes, beyond Altman simply saying, I have decided not to recuse myself. Could you tell us about that discussion? Ms. WILLIAMS. Sir, there may have been discussion. I cannot tell you exactly what that discussion was. I have to tell you that at the time this was happening, none of this seemed terribly significant to me in terms of the things that I should remember. This happened in February. I do not recall every discussion at every meeting. Senator SARBANES. If I could just make this. Mr. Altman I think told us the meeting lasted 30 seconds or Eggleston. Senator GRAMM. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR GRAMM Senator GRAMM. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, this February 3 meeting may not have been an important meeting for Ms. Williams, but it was a very important meeting for Roger Altman. I want to go back and set out the parameters for all of this, because I think people trying to follow what is going on here forget how it all fits together. Let me try to be brief, even though I am sorry I talk very slowly. Roger Altman was appointed by the President to head the RTC and be its Chief Executive Officer on a temporary basis. Roger Altman was a very close, long-time friend of the President, went to college with him. As any good friend should, when President Clinton ran for President, Mr. Altman raised for him hundreds of thousands of dollars. We should all have friends like that. Roger Altman, in his capacity as head of the RTC, was notified by Mr. Roelle, a career employee of the RTC, that there were 9 criminal referrals on their way to Washington, and that the President and the First Lady's names were mentioned in those referrals. Under normal circumstances, to communicate with people who are mentioned in criminal referrals would be improper, unethical, and, depending on the intent, could be an obstruction of justice. Roger Altman decided that, because this information could leak to the press, he was going to notify the White House. We have two sworn testimonies that in fact he ordered that the White House be notified.