August 4, 1994 - Part 1
August 4, 1994 - Part 1
(09:45:15) Ms. Williams, I am just curious. Where is your office located in the White House complex? Ms. WILLIAMS. I share an office with staff members in the old Executive Office Building of the White House complex, and then I have an office that is my own in the West Wing of the White House. Senator SARBANES. And where is it in the West Wing, in proximity to Mr. Mclarty? Ms. WILLIAMS. It is on the second floor of the White House. Mr. McLarty's office is on the first floor. Senator SARBANES. Is the Counsel's Office near you, the White ..House Counsel's Office? MS. WILLIAMS. Yes, it is. It is very near, down the hall. There is only one other office between my office and the Counsel's Office, Mrs. Clinton's office. 280 Senator SARBANES. Now, how did you ever get to the meeting Of February 2nd? Ms. WILLIAMS. How did I get there, sir? Senator SARBANES. How did it come that you were at that meet- ing? MS. WILLIAMS. My assistant told me that there had been a call from the Office of the Chief of Staff to the President. And Of course if you get a call from that office, it would serve you well to be at that meeting. Second, I am an Assistant to the President, in addition to my du_ ties as Chief of Staff to the First Lady and so it is not unusual for me to be invited to any number of meetings on issues concerning the White House as a whole. Senator SARBANES. So you got there because Mr. McLarty's office called and said you should go there? Ms. WILLIAMS. That is correct, sir. Senator SARBANES. Mr. McLarty was not at that meeting? Ms. WILLIAMS. That is correct, sir, Senator SARBANES. Did you feel you were there sort of in place of him? MS. WILLIAMS. In place of Mr. McLarty? Senator SARBANES. Yes, since he was not there. Ms. WILLIAMS. Oh, no. I thought I was there to be myself Senator SARBANES. All right. Now you have recounted what transpired at that meeting. Was it the next day that you had this meeting with Altman? Ms. WILLIAMS. As I said before, I believe it was 2 days later, although my recollections may not be specific, but I believe it was shortly after the meeting. Senator SARBANES. Well, Mr. Altman says it is the next day. Are you saying it was not the next day but 2 days later? Ms. WILLIAMS. No. What I am saying, because it was an impromptu meeting, and does not appear on my calendar, I recall it as being maybe 2 days later. It could have been the next day. I would not challenge that recollection. Senator SARBANES. Now, did Altman call you to have that meeting. Ms. WILLIAMS. Mr. Altman did call me. Senator SARBANES. He says that he called Ickes. MS. WILLIAMS. Well, as I recall, Mr. Altman called me and he asked me to assemble a group because he wanted to tell them that he had decided not to recuse himself, and that meeting Senator SARBANES. You are very clear about that, that he called you? Ms. WILLIAMS. I am very clear about that, yes, sir, I am. Senator SARBANES. He called you and asked you to assemble a group. Why did he want to assemble a group? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not know what his specific motivations were. Senator SARBANES. Why did you think he was-what was your reaction to this call from Mr. Altman saying, I want you to assemble-did he tell you what group to assemble? 281 Ms. WILLIAMS. As I stated before in my testimony, let me try and take those questions one at a time. I am not sure whether or not he told me who should be assembled or if I guessed at it. With respect to the reason for having the meeting itself, Mr. Altman seemed to be clear he wanted to tell people at the White House that he was not going to recuse himself That seemed to be the purpose of the meeting. Senator SARBANES. Now who did you assemble for that meeting? Ms. WILLIAMS. I called the White House Counsel's Office. I do not remember if I spoke to Mr. Nussbaum and he was not there, and I reached Mr. Eggleston. I do not know which of those two from the Counsel's Office came. I called Mr. Ickes and I called Mr. Stephanopoulos, and I think that is about it. Senator SARBANES, Now do you remember who was at the meeting? Ms. WILLIAMS. I remember Mr. Ickes being there. I remember Mr. Stephanopoulos being there. I cannot recall if it was Mr. Nussbaum or Mr. Eggleston, but it seems to me that someone from the Counsel's Office was there. Senator SARBANES. Anyone else? Ms. WILLIAMS. That is all I recall coming to the meeting. Senator SARBANES. Tell me about that meeting.