August 4, 1994 - Part 1
August 4, 1994 - Part 1
(09:30:18) But I was there for some discussion of the recusal, but I do not, know how much time. 275 The CHAIRMAN, When Mr. Altman testified before us the other day, he indicated that in the hours before the meeting on the 2nd, the first meeting here of the two, that he had reached a decision to recuse himself, and that he was going to express that view at that first meeting on February 2nd, the one that we have just discussed and you arrived at a little bit late. And so he came into that meeting. Were you there at the time when he indicated that he had decided that he was going to recuse himself? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not believe that I was there, because my general understanding was that he was in a decisionmaking mode; that he had not necessarily made a decision. The CHAIRMAN. Well, he must have given some indication as to his intention, did he not? Is that not what triggered the discussion? MS. WILLIAMS. Well, what triggered my interest and I guess my attention in the discussion itself, was his discussion of the process by which the President and Mrs. Clinton would be asked to possibly waive their rights to the statute of limitations. And so I responded, in terms of the recusal, to the limited question of whether or not they would be asked to waive their rights and the process by which this decision would be made. If the RTC staff would make the decision or, on the other hand, I believe he said, or on the other hand, if I decide to recuse myself, the RTC staff will make the decision. If I stay in the position then I will be making the decision. That is what triggered the discussion for recusal for me. The CHAIRMAN. Well, Mr. Altman had a briefing sheet from which he was working in that meeting on the 2nd, I want to read you the last line on his briefing sheet. This was prepared ahead of time, and he affirmed that in his testimony here just a day ago, On this briefing point, he says this: I have decided that I will recuse myself from the decisionmaking process as Interim CEO of the RTC because of my relationship with the President and Mrs. Clinton. And so the clear sense we have from his testimony was that he had made this decision, he went to the meeting with an intention to express it, and did so. Now I want to know whether you heard that part of the discussion or not? I know you have testified that you thought that he ought not to recuse himself. MS. WILLIAMS. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. And I am going to come to that in a minute. And apparently Mr. Nussbaum also expressed himself that Mr. Altman should not recuse himself. But are you saying to us, did Mr. Altman, when you were there, indicate that his intention was to recuse himself? Ms. WILLIAMS. Sir, I am saying to you, to the best of my recollection I did not hear him say that. The CHAIRMAN. All right, now let me get to the point, the view expressed by others in the room. In your deposition, you have indicated to us that your reaction to this discussion was that he ought not to recuse himself. 276 The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now, with Mr. Nussbaum, did Mr. Nussbaum indicate his opinion that Mr. Altman ought not to recuse himself Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not recall exactly what Mr. Nussbaum said but I do recall that after I made my statement, that Mr. Nussbaum had said, whatever the decision Mr. Altman will have to make it or something to that effect. As I indicated in my statement, although now I wish I had been much more attentive, at the point that I felt I understood from Mr. Altman what the process was to be, because that really is what I was interested in at that point, and I had had my say, I must admit to you that my attention wandered from that meeting. I was racing on to the next thing I had to do. The CHAIRMAN. Now the indications we have are that Mr. Nussbaum did express the view that Mr. Altman should not recuse himself and apparently had a very strong feeling about it. You are not aware of that?