August 2, 1994 - Part 13
August 2, 1994 - Part 13
(01:55:44) That on the 24th in that hearing, efforts were made, and they were categorized over and over again by people who were writing their own opinion, people, in Mr. Steiner's case who were on Mr. Altman's staff, that Mr. Altman skillfully dodged. It is clear, I think, to anybody who reads the transcript that questions were not answered, that when questions were narrowed to yes and no, that noes were given when clearly the answer should have been yes. And when you go back it's not one problem. My guess is, given that we know of 40 or more, there were likely 100 contacts. And so I'm saying here that this has nothing to do with the work of a man or his sincerity on his job, but it has everything to do with the veracity of what he says in testimony before a Committee of the U.S. Senate. I believe on that ground that there are clearly problems here, and I think that any objective observers, if they strip away partisanship, preference, friendship, anything else, has to conclude that in the testimony on the 24th the standard of veracity was not met, I believe even tonight that this testimony has not been complete, by design, and that it has not been to the point of the questions asked, and that it has not been truthful, and I think that it is verifiable Mr. ALTMAN. Senator I just want to be sure I understand. Is your position that my testimony over the past 10 or so hours has not been truthful? Is that your position? Senator GRAMM. I would say that if I looked I would say Mr. ALTMAN. Is that your position, Senator? Senator GRAMM. -Let me give you one example. My position is and I don't know that you are asking the questions but I'd be happy to answer this one. When you said in response to Mr. D'Amato's question that _you raised recusal spontaneously and you blurted it out, I believe that any objective observer looking at three documentations, with sworn statements, and looking at 10 logic would say that that is not the case, that that was not a truthful answer. I would say that. I have not asserted here tonight that that is on par with the 24th meeting, but I personally believe it and I believe objective observers would believe it. also think that someone would have a grudging admiration for your ability not to answer a question. It is unrivaled in all of the hearings I have ever sat in and I admire it as a skill but I do not think it serves you or the process well. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Altman- Senator KERRY. Mr. Altman, did you want to respond? The CHAIRMAN. I'm certainly going to afford you the opportunity make any response you want to make. Mr. ALTMAN. No, I don't have any response. Senator KERRY. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Kerry. Senator KERRY. Mr. Chairman, I sure hope my colleagues on the Other side of the aisle are going to apply the same standard to their Support for people like Oliver North and others around the country. They shouldn't be signing letters, or raising money, or supporting his candidacy based upon the standard they have set here, but 560 then double standards have never stopped the Senate in the I would like to finish. Senator GRAMM. May I just inject here? I never said North said before Committee. Senator KERRY. Oliver North lied to the U.S. Congress. That a known fact. He admitted it, he's proud of it, and he camp on it and I hope you will hold the same standard. Senator GRAMM. I didn't say that was Senator KERRY. I hope you will apply the same standard, ator. Senator GRAMM. If Mr. Altman runs for the Senate, I might 8 port him Senator KERRY. I believe I have the floor, Mr. Chairman Senator GRAMM. -but when he's testifying before the Sena Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I can tell you unequivocally-even this one I think you'll accept the straightforwardness of the answer---I'm never going to run for the United States Congress, Senator GRAMM. I suspect that's the case. Senator KERRY. Mr. Chairman, this has been a long, long process people are testy but, we've tried to get at the facts here. I think its wrong to be drawing conclusions, as the Senator from Texas has just done, without having beard from witnesses over the next few days, without having beard the explanations or the nuances of other people who may shed light on what Mr. Altman has said, who incidentally corrected the testimony that you're holding him accountable for, who correctd it to Senator Reigle and publicly a few minutes ago. But that doesn't seem to stop you or others. And it bothers me greatly, if we're going to have a fair fact-finding effort here, there ought to be some effort from our colleagues to, at least, acknowledge certain realities as we go along.