August 2, 1994 - Part 12
August 2, 1994 - Part 12
(01:40:32) The CHAIRMAN. We will make it a part of the record without ob- jection. Senator GRAMM. Could I have a copy of it so I could look at it? Senator DODD. Mr. Chairman, just a couple of points of observation. if I may. One, regarding the Jay Stephens matter, I think the record ought to reflect that there was an exchange and apparently phone call-and Mr, Altman, you correct me if I'm wrong here phone call from people at the White House expressing their disappointment over the manner in which you recused ourself and in the context of that conversation raised the issue of Jay Stephens;. is that not correct? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. Senator DODD. And that subsequent to that conversation or during that conversation you expressed your views as to the wisdom of trying to do anything about getting Jay Stephens removed as the' attorney of record; is that not correct. Mr, ALTMAN. I think what I said was A, Outside Counsel decisions do not come to me and B, therefore, if be has been hired, that is it. Senator DODD. And that was it and any attempt to remove him would be an unwise move? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't think it went beyond that. I mean I just said that's it. I don't believe they asked me to do anything about it. I don't believe they did, But I said that's it. Senator DODD. Now, with regard to these briefing papers and the February 2 meeting, I'm somewhat mystified as to why people are making more of this than not. I suppose what some would like you to do here is just agree with them and see it as they interpret itI can understand that. But we can stay here Mr. ALTMAN. I think if I sit here long enough, I'll agree with almost anything that's said. 555 Senator DODD. Maybe that's part of what-someone is trying to achieve here. And for the life of me, I don't think it made any difference one way or the other on this matter, but nonetheless, as I understand it, the talking points were prepared by Ms. Hanson; is that not correct? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. Senator DODD. Ms. Hanson's recommendation to you was to recuse yourself. Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. Senator DODD. You stated earlier today that one of the interpretations of her putting this on there is that she was, maybe, trying to push the issue along a little bit so you might do it earlier rather than later. Mr. ALTMAN. I think she wanted to give me a prod, yes. Senator DODD. You said that hours ago it seems to me, in this hearing. You made that point. Mr. ALTMAN. I think so. Senator SARBANES. I think several hours ago--can I make an observation? Senator DODD. I'll be glad to yield, Senator SARBANES. It seems to me often talking points are pared, you don't use all the talking points. Senator DODD. I was just going to make that point. I get them every day and I presume my staff and the people who work bard on it would like me to read every word and recite every wonderful observation they have put in it, but God forbid I did and I say that with all due respect to my staff, Usually I'd love to tell them I took them home every night and read them in detail and was fully prepared every morning. What usually happens is that I'm racing between meetings, I'm grabbing at my band, I'm trying to speed read the thing to get the major points. If I know at feast the group I'm talking to, I consider it a victory and I suspect I'm not much different than most people in this town. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Dodd, the Special Counsel here keeps giving me talking points and I keep not using them. Senator DODD. The suggestion somehow that someone in this town would take talking points and go down and adhere to them religiously, taking every bullet and reciting it verbatim is just ridiculous. I don't know of anyone who does that nor should they for that matter. Again I've listened to that point over and over and over again here, and now' at a 101/2, 11-hour harangue. Let me state as an observation and I made the points earlier, and I think Senator Boxer did it as well. We're all asked to draw conclusions and certainly facts are important and testimony is im- ortant, but I too note, Mr. Chairman, that this witness has now been with us going on 12 hours. In some ways this is almost like an inquisition rather than a bearing. But the fact of the matter is, you have to look at the totality of everything and I would be more impressed if at some point in the last 10 hours or so, that someone on the other side would have recognized your contributions, Mr. Altman, over the years. I made the Point earlier, you served in two Administrations, and have been confirmed unanimously by the U.S. Senate on two different occa- 556 sions. You know many of the people at this table. You've worked with them over the years. That's not to suggest that you ought to be forgiven or Pardoned if you've done something wrong, but to have some sense of propor. tionality, some sense of humanity in all of this as we consider people. You mentioned earlier it was your 9-year-old son's birthday today. I would Just tell you, from this one Senator's perspective some day he'll look at this testimony. Some day he'll read it and it's sad that you were not able to spend the day with him. This Senator's observation after almost 12 hours is that his father did a damn fine job. Some day I hope be-recognizes that and I think he will.