August 3, 1994 - Part 8
August 3, 1994 - Part 8
(19:05:15) Senator HATCH. And as I understand it, in your deposition, you did say "Mr. Ryan, of whom he had no opinion. Of course, actually it was my understanding with Ryan, she is just involved in the process, but I don't want to overdo this. " You were asked the question "did Mr. Nussbaum state a concern that absent Mr. Altman's involvement in Madison-related matters it would be left in the hands of Mr. Ryan, whom he didn't know, and Ms. Kulka, of whom he had a low opinion?" And your answer was "yes-I mean I should say--and earlier I sort of qualified this--I think these conversations were pre-February 2nd, my best recollection is that these were pre-February 2nd." Then the next question was, "was this an issue that Mr. Nussbaum appeared to be concerned about? "Answer: I can only tell you what he said. "Question: You can't tell us in your experience whether he was more concerned than he was about most issues or less concerned? "Answer: I can't. It was just an issue. "Question: Did any other White House staff members, to your knowledge, state similar views or concerns before February 2, 1994? "Answer: Not that I recall. I don't think anybody else had any knowledge of Ms. Kulka or Mr. Ryan," et cetera. Now, you took part in the meeting with John Podesta and Todd Stern regarding the hiring of Jay Stephens by the RTC? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes. I'm saying yes, I sort of vaguely remember. Senator HATCH. You were there? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes. Senator HATCH. OK. And in this meeting, Mr. Podesta wanted to find out if Mr. Stephens had been hired; right? Mr. EGGLESTON. Sir, I remember making a call to Ms. Hanson either on the 24th or on the 25th to ask about that question. I'm sorry, sir, I don't quite remember this meeting. I probably would have made that call at the request of somebody. It may well have been Mr. Podesta'. Senator HATCH. Did you understand from this meeting that Mr. Podesta would have preferred that Mr. Stephens not be working for RTC on the Madison Guaranty matter? Mr. EGGLESTON. I can only describe it this way. People were generally stunned that the RTC would have hired Mr. Stephens, and I don't think that anybody I heard said we should do something about it or something like that. People around the White House were stunned that they would have hired Jay Stephens. Senator HATCH. Would have hired Jay Stephens. Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes, sir. Senator HATCH, On February 25, the day Mr. Altman decided to recuse himself from the Madison Guaranty matter, you called Jean Hanson, as you just said to confirm that Jay Stephens had been hired? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes, sir. Senator HATCH, And you expressed to Ms. Hanson the White House's displeasure? Mr. EGGLESTON. I don't think I did. Senator HATCH, You don't think you did. 140 Mr. EGGLESTON. I think I just-I was very sensitive to this issue by the morning of the 25th. I think I called her. I asked her whether it was public information. I told her that it was-that Mr. Alt man had testified the day before that it was Pillsbury, Madison & Sutro. I called to ask her whether it was Jay Stephens, the attor- ney, and I think I said to her, I assume that's public information, By the morning the of the 25th I'm sensitive to what information I'm getting from the Treasury about this issue, and I don't think I did convey back to her that we were unhappy. Senator HATCH. Did you discuss with Ms. Hanson who at the RTC would be making the--who actually would be making the de cisions in the Madison Guaranty matter now that Mr. Altman had recused himself? Mr. EGGLESTON. I did not. Senator HATCH. I believe you said earlier that you had discussions with several White House officials about the hiring of Jay Stephens. Could you name with whom you've had those discussions? Mr. EGGLESTON. The ones that I really think about that I talked to--I indicated to you earlier I couldn't remember having a meeting. I remember talking about it with Mr. Podesta and Mr. Stern. Mr. Stem is Mr. Podesta's Deputy. They have off-ices next to each other. Senator HATCH. Sure. Let me ask you some questions about a February 28, 1994 memo from you to Harold Ickes, the White House Deputy Chief of Staff. First, let me ask you, are you aware that the very next day, March 1st, Mr. Ickes forwarded your memo to the First Lady? Mr. EGGLESTON. I am now aware. I was not aware of that then. Senator HATCH. You testified that Mr. Ickes asked you to prepare your February 28th memo. Did you also talk with Mr. Nussbaum about this memo? Mr. EGGLESTON. I don't recall. I would have prepared a memo like this only at the request of Mr. Ickes. I would not have necessarily checked it with Mr. Nussbaum. Senator HATCH. Would Nussbaum have seen it? Would he have approved it? Mr. EGGLESTON. He would not necessarily-I'm sorry? Senator HATCH. But he looked at it? Mr. EGGLESTON. He would not have necessarily approved it. I may have given him a copy. Senator HATCH. The reason I ask you is because you said in the last paragraph here, "we intend to nominate a person for the position of CEO for the RTC within the next few weeks," and you said you learned that from Bernie Nussbaum himself. Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes, I think that's right, but I think I learned that not in connection with the preparation of this memo. I think I knew that independently. Senator HATCH. On the last page, page 6 of your memo, it addresses the question "who at the RTC would be the decisionmaker in whether to bring a civil action arising out of the failure of Madison Guaranty?" Now, this question had been a subject of intense interest at the White House ever since Mr. Altman first raised the prospect that he would recuse himself-, isn't that right? 141