August 3, 1994 - Part 8
August 3, 1994 - Part 8
(18:59:36)(tape #10083 begins) Senator CAMPBELL. That's fine. I'm really interested in the chain of command of who does the assigning of issues and who gets advice from who before moving on any issue. Mr. KLEIN. Typically, Senator, the Counsel to the President, Mr. Nussbaum first, now Mr. Cutler, has overall responsibility for matters. The way, I think, both gentlemen worked was as follows-at least when I was Deputy, and I was only Deputy since December of last year-and that is on many matters, they would deal directly with an Associate Counsel who had-for example, on an ethical matter deal directly with Beth Nolan, on a matter involving some Constitutional issue, might deal directly with Cliff Sloan and so forth. There were other matters that they would assign to me, and then I would reassign some of those or supervise some of those. And that's the way it worked basically, sir. Senator CAMPBELL. If you were Counsel who was assigned a certain area, then you didn't need direction from Mr, Nussbaum. Is that the way it worked? Mr. KLEIN. Again, it would depend on the activity. I think most of the people kept Mr. Nussbaum informed of what they were doing, although, like any people, they exercised some discretion on their own. Senator CAMPBELL. Who directed Mr. Podesta to call Mr. Altman? Mr. KLEIN. My understanding of that is that when these events occurred, there was, I think, as has been said here, some concern, Mr. Eggleston, myself other people. The Chief of Staff, Mr. McLarty, was obviously concerned this matter be dealt with accurately and straightforward and I think he asked Mr. Podesta to kind of get on top of this. That's my impression. You can check with the two of them. Senator CAMPBELL. Would you give me a little rundown again? The press said it took 7 days after the hearing of February 21st for that call to be made and you corrected that and said it wasn't. It was more like 5 and it was because it started on a Thursday and Mr. Nussbaum was in Mexico. Was that Mr. KLEIN. That's correct. Basically, what Mr. Eggleston said which was that he was at the meeting-he was at the hearing on Thursday the 24th, and he Senator CAMPBELL. And you felt that you needed his approval for Mr.- maybe I'm mixed up a little bit here, but Mr. Podesta is a Staff Secretary, is he not? Mr. KLEIN. He is a Staff Secretary, yes, sir. Senator CAMPBELL. Did he need your approval or Mr. Nussbaum's approval to make the call? Mr. KLEIN. I don't think he needed anyone's approval. I think certainly the people on our staff thought it was very important to report this information, to have Mr. Nussbaum there. The information essentially--the hearing ended, obviously, on the end of the day Thursday. The information was in the press on Friday. I learned of some of the information from Mr. Sloan later Friday afternoon. Monday morning, Mr. Nussbaum was going to be back 138 in the office and we got right on it. Tuesday afternoon, we made the phone call, Senator CAMPBELL. Even after that call, it took about another 3 weeks to get the record corrected; is that correct? Mr. KLEIN. Well, there was a series of follow-up letters. I don't have the dates in front of me. Senator CAMPBELL. Were you involved in consultations with Mr, Altman during that period of time? Mr. KLEIN. No, sir, Senator CAMPBELL. Who was? Was there anybody in the White House Counsel who was? Mr. KLEIN. Nobody in the White House Counsel, to my knowledge. The only person I know who had that original phone call was Mr. Podesta. Senator CAMPBELL. Ms. Nolan, you were part of the White House team that discussed whether the White House should correct Mr. Altman's testimony; is that correct? Ms. NOLAN. Senator Campbell, I was in one discussion about it. Senator CAMPBELL. Would you tell us who was also in that discussion? Ms. NOLAN. Mr. Klein, Mr. Nussbaum and, I believe, Mr. Eggleston. Senator CAMPBELL, Was there any difference of opinion or a feeling that perhaps it was unnecessary to make any part of corrections--when you had that meeting, was there sort of a unified approach when you ended up about what corrections should be made or Ms. NOLAN. The part of the discussions I was in, I don't think we reached a final conclusion. What I recall was that the issue was being discussed. This was the first day that Mr. Nussbaum was back, that Monday. And I just recall that we were exploring the issue, so I don't recall a particular conclusion. Senator CAMPBELL. After it was corrected, did Mr. Altman's March 2nd letter to correct the record reflect what you had discussed in that meeting? Ms. NOLAN. Senator Senator CAMPBELL. To the best of your recollection. Ms. NOLAN. I'm not familiar with the letter and I didn't participate in follow- up meetings. Senator CAMPBELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield. The CHAIRMAN, Thank you, Senator Campbell. Senator Hatch. Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to say, having listened to all of you, I think the White House is served well by its Legal Counsel down there at this time, at least the four of you. But let me ask a couple of questions, Mr. Eggleston, if I can direct them to you, maybe you can help us. You understood from your discussions with Mr. Nussbaum following the February 2nd meeting at the White House that he was very concerned that if Mr. Altman recused himself, Jack Ryan and Ellen Kulka would be in charge of decisionmaking in the Madison Guaranty case; is that right? Mr, EGGLESTON. Mr. Hatch, he was not-he was never concerned about Mr. Ryan. There was never any discussion. 139 Senator HATCH. There was concern about Ellen Kulka? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes.