August 3, 1994 - Part 3
August 3, 1994 - Part 3
(13:00:31) Senator D'AMATO. Well, he didn't talk about the case. He talked about his position of being close to the Clintons and being the ultimate decisionmaker, didn't he? You knew he was close to the Clintons. Secretary BENTSFN. Well, of course I knew he was a friend of the Clintons, obviously so. I don't recall the details of the discussion. Senator D'AMATO. Well, Mr. Secretary, as painful as this may be and I've said it a short time ago, I think you had an obligation then to give him counsel to step aside. I think the matter Secretary BENTSEN. Senator, I don't agree when I didn't know the facts in the case. I am not about to counsel someone Senator D'AMATO. This is not a question, Senator Secretary BENTSEN [continuing]. On something that is as important as that to that person without knowing the facts. Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Secretary, we're talking about one case and the question of the facts, excuse me, is irrelevant. secretary BENTSEN. Well, I don't agree. Senator D'AMATO. We're not talking about the merits of the case. We're talking about a person who comes to you who says I have a decision to make, whether I should recuse myself or not in a case that affects the Clintons. You don't need to know more than that because you know that he has a personal relationship and will be the ultimate decisionmaker. Now, that you knew Secretary BENTSEN. Senator, you and I have a difference of opinion on what should be done in that. 57 Senator D'AMATO. Well, then, tell me how you differ from that opinion. Secretary BENTSEN. I just told you. Senator D'AMATO. OK. Secretary BENTSEN. I think that you have to know the facts in the case before you arrive at that kind of a judgment. Senator D'AMATO. Well, I'm suggesting to you that given the facts Secretary BENTSEN. I wasn't given the facts. And frankly, I did not want to get in a position of any intervention on my part. The CHAIRMAN. Well, in fact Senator D'AMATO. Here is what Mr. Altman says The CHAIRMAN. We'll come back to that. If you'll permit me. I think in your role as the oversight person with respect to the Oversight Board, you really couldn't do that even if you wanted to. I mean, it seems to me that, you know Secretary BENTSEN. That's right. The CHAIRMAN [continuing]. Your responsibility there was such, because you have to stay removed from these cases, that even if you had a firm and final judgment of advice, you'd have to withhold it because, in a sense, that compromises your own role in this other status. Wouldn't that be true? Secretary BENTSEN. That's true, Mr. Chairman. Senator D'AMATO, Let me suggest to you-here is what Mr. Altman says in his own words when this issue came up. Said the Secretary, "he knew it was optional. He said it was purely a personal decision," which is what you've related, meaning that you could go either way on this. But it's a personal decision" and again that verifies your- there's no doubt about it. Secretary BENTSEN. That's not exactly my words. I've told you what my words were. Senator DAMATO. For the sake of-and for the sake of appearances or something to that effect, you would be better off doing it. Secretary BENTSEN. No, I don't recall saying that. senator D'AMATO. All right. Given the time and whatnot, Mr. Secretary, I'm going to say to you again that if a deputy comes to You and states an obvious situation where there is a very real case-possibility of a case being brought that might involve personal friends and that he is vested with the ultimate decisionmaking, the question of whether or not that person should step aside for that case seems to me to be one in which someone with your seasoning, with all of the years that you have been here, would have said, step aside. Secretary BENTSEN. Senator, if you go back and look at the rules that the Chairman of the Oversight Board operates on, as directed by the Congress, there will not be an intervention in a case-specific, and that could have been interpreted as that Senator D'AMATO. You mean Secretary BENTSEN [continuing]. And I was not about to get into that kind of a compromise. Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Secretary, you're trying to interpret the rules at this point to say that if someone comes to you-and we're 'lot-and indicates that he has a personal relationship with a case that will come, and it is before him and there's a very real question 58 as to whether he should step aside, recuse himself from that case, that you're interpreting it to say it would be a violation of rules to suggest step aside? Let me ask you Secretary BENTSEN. Yes, I certainly think it could be interpreted as an intervention into the case, in a case-specific and I wasn't about to get into that position. Senator DAMATO. OK. I can understand that, Mr. Secretary. I just disagree. I think at that point in time you should have said to him, you don't want to embarrass yourself, the Department, the Administration, you should step aside and don't worry about the White House or anybody else. I will say this to you The CHAIRMAN. Could you just yield if you are going to move off that point because this is one area where I think our interpretation is different.