August 3, 1994 - Part 3
August 3, 1994 - Part 3
(12:45:17) Secretary BENTSEN. I recall he told me that but not at that time. I don't remember the date, and I know I was relieved when he told me. And, as I have found out additional facts subsequent to that, if I'd have been him-if I would have been in his position, I sure would have recused myself. Senator HATCH. He stated that the first time he decided to recuse himself was February 25th. Would that be consistent with your recollection? Secretary BENTSEN. Well, at that time, yes. If that wasn't the date, it's close to it. Senator HATCH. Were you aware that Treasury General Counsel had recommended to Mr Altman that he recuse himself from Madison matters before that? Secretary BENTSEN. I don't remember being told that. Senator HATCH. OK. Did you at the time have an opinion on whether Mr. Altman should recuse himself-well, you've expressed that. Secretary BENTSEN. Yes. Senator HATCH. You said that if it had been your choice, you would have done it? Secretary BENTSEN. Yes. Senator HATCH. Can you tell us why you, if it had been your choice, you would have done it under those circumstances? Secretary BENTSEN. Well, I think he was put in a position where he was considered a friend of the President and he was being chal- 53 lenged that that friendship would influence his judgment and I think he was right to just get rid of that argument. Senator HATCH. OK. Yesterday, Mr. Altman said something to the effect that you expressed your own surprise or puzzlement to him that he did not recuse himself, that it was in his own self-interest to recuse. Did you offer Mr. Altman any advice on recusal from Madison matters and, if so, what was that advice? Did you, for example, tell Mr. Altman that recusing himself or making a decision to recuse was something he had to do? Secretary BENTSEN. I told him he had to make that decision that was his, his alone-that he had the facts, that I did not. Senator HATCH. Did anyone from the White House ever discuss the matter of Mr. Altman's recusal with you? Secretary BENTSEN. I don't remember anyone in the White House discussing it with me. Senator HATCH. Thank you. That's all I have. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Murray. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR MURRAY Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome Mr. Secretary. Again, I have the privilege of going last and listening to all of the comments before me. We've been here for 31/2 hours and I have to ask you the question I've been asking myself for the last several hours. Why are you here? Secretary BENTSEN. Oh, it is not for me to say. Senator MURRAY. Well, as long as you are here, I really have to ask you a question. You knew Jack Kennedy, you knew Sam Ervin, you knew Howard Baker. You've been here a long time. I'm new to this. If you were sitting on this side of the table listening to all this testimony and hearing everything, what conclusions would you come to? Secretary BENTSEN. Boy, I don't want to tell this Committee what to do, but, Senator, there has been-you've had three investigations and they've been independent investigations. They say no criminal act was committed, no violation of ethical standards, but some troubling things. And 1, as Secretary of the Treasury, assume the responsibility for what happens in Treasury, and I have also told you we're going to try to correct some of those concerns, and we'll be pleased to have the recommendation of this Committee, which has been deeply involved in this issue, and in turn that of the Justice Department and the IG and I sure want to get the Office of Government Ethics involved in it. And we're going to move and try to see that we don't have this kind of problem develop in the future and then I'd arrive at a judgment, but that's yours. Senator MURRAY. Do you think anybody should be removed from their job? Secretary BENTSEN. I think that whatever happened here was not with the intent to harm. I think there were some errors in judgment, but I haven't found anybody that calls them right all the time,