August 3, 1994 - Part 4
August 3, 1994 - Part 4
(14:50:44) And after you had this exchange at Renaissance Weekend and before the next morning when you said well, you really shouldn't do that, you talked to a number of people and I'm a little curious as to how they record they talked to you but you don't record -- you're not certain you talked to them; is that right? Mr. LUDWIG. Well, sir, this was like calling almost any Government office. I got passed from person to person. I don't remember all the people I spoke with. As I mentioned in my testimony, Cliff Sloan evidently has testified that he remembers speaking to me and it's entirely possible. I don't remember it, but it's certainly possible. The two people I do remember speaking with were Bill Kennedy and Joel Klein. Senator SARBANES. And all of these people as you went through them pressed caution or said we don't think you ought to do this; is that right? Mr. LUDWIG, I remember Jean Hanson, Joel Klein and Bill Kennedy having a cautionary note or tone or saying-I don't remember words-but something that was cautionary. Senator SARBANES. What do you mean by that? Mr. LUDWIG. As I say, I don't exactly remember the words, but it would be something on the order of-I wonder whether you should do this. It was a cautionary note or tone. I do remember Joel Klein being very negative. Again, I don't remember words, but he was very negative, Senator SARBANES. In other words, he said don't do it, I take it. 69 Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, something to the effect of absolutely don't do it or I wouldn't do it or something like that, Senator SARBANES. You say you concluded actually before you talked to 1,0ein that you shouldn't do it. Mr, LUDWIG. No, sir. The President had made this inquiry and I wanted to react, not reflexively, but really consider the question. I wanted to have enough information as a lawyer to be able to react as to whether or not I could provide advice, but after I'd spoken to Mr. Klein and reflected on this situation, I concluded that I should not speak with the President about this matter. Senator SARBANES. Now, have you recused yourself? Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, I have. Senator SARBANES. What is the basis of the recusal? Mr. LUDWIG. I don't understand the question, sir. Senator SARBANES, From what have you recused yourself.? Mr. LUDWIG. I think I've provided a copy of the recusal to the Committee. It's a fairly broad recusal, recusing myself having anything to do with the President or Mrs. Clinton in their personal capacity relating to Madison/Whitewater. Here, I've just been given a copy. It says: Although I have not had occasion to address any issue concerning the so-called Whitewater matter up to the present and have no reason to believe that I will be involved in any such issue in the future, I've been informed that in connection with the Senate hearings to confirm the nomination of Ricki Tigert as chairperson of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, Ms. Tigert has elected to recuse herself from participation in any such issue. In order to avoid even the possibility of the appearance of a conflict of interest or other impropriety, I have also decided to recuse myself from participating in any official investigation, inquiry, or determination which may come before me in my capacity as Comptroller of the Currency or director of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation concerning matters or events involving the President or Mrs. Clinton in a personal capacity. Senator SARBANES. What is the appearance of a conflict of interest or other impropriety that you perceive that was-is the basis of this recusal? That you're a friend, that you know the President and Mrs. Clinton? Mr. LUDWIG. If there were a personal matter to come before the FDIC; this recusal would apply to a personal matter, relating to the President or Mrs. Clinton, and I would be recused from any such matter,