August 3, 1994 - Part 1
August 3, 1994 - Part 1
(10:45:35) Secretary BENTSEN. Well then let me get into that further with you, Senator. The other thing was, first I think Mr. Cutler is a man of integrity, an excellent lawyer. He served at least a Republican and a 21 Democratic President with distinction. I think he is an expert on the question of ethics, But I also said to him, I want to be sure that this is not shared with the witnesses, that this is for your office and your staff. And he assured me that is the way it would be handled. Senator BOND. But, Mr. Chairman, if I just may follow up. These were shared with Mr. Altman. Secretary BENTSEN. That is right, after the completion of the report, afterward. Senator BOND. Well, there is a question of whether it was before they were made public and before he testified. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sasser. Senator SARBANES. Well would the Senator yield to me? Senator SASSER, Pleased to yield to Senator Sarbanes. Senator SARBANES. I think it is important to clarify this. As I understand, from what the Secretary has said, the depositions taken at the Treasury were made available to Mr. Cutler, who is doing a report, with the understanding that they would be held by him and his staff, and that other witnesses would not see those depositions. That is what you have testified to? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Up to that point. Now after the IG had completed his report and after this Committee had completed its depositions, then they were subject to being shared. Senator SARBANES. That is right, and that is the next stage after the IG completed his report, then they were made more generally available. Is that correct? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Senator DAMATO. Mr, Chairman, if I might make a point. I have to tell you, I understand sending the depositions over to Mr. Cutler. I think that is a closed question. But I think reasonable people could say, well you know he is conducting an investigation of his own, et cetera, so should he not have that information? But I have to tell you, for him to release that information so that Mr. Ickes' deposition falls into the possession or into the hands of Mr. Altman before he is examined here, I think is inexcusable, and certainly a lapse of good judgment, And that does not reflect on you, Mr. Secretary. I just think that falls into the area of making it possible to tailor testimony. We are asking Mr.-and we only found out about this because we are asking Mr. Altman questions, and the next thing you know he says, oh, that is not what Mr. Ickes said. How do you know that? Oh, I read his deposition. He's got his deposition there. Secretary BENTSEN. Well let me say, the sharing of the depositions was only done insofar as witnesses after all depositions were taken, including that from this Committee. Now the depositions for this Committee, because you requested it, as I understand, you have those, and I do not think those have been shared. 22 The CHAIRMAN. And they are held in a confidential status as between the witnesses until we actually use the material here in the Committee. Secretary BENTSEN. That is my understanding. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. Oh, Senator Sasser. Excuse me. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR SASSER Senator SASSER. Well thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, I want to welcome you this morning before the Committee. I know you are delighted to be here this morning. [Laughter.] To be talking about this particular subject. But as you are probably aware, the General Counsel of the Treasury Department, Jean Hanson, wrote a note saying that you had heard about the substance of the meetings that took place in the Autumn of 1993 dealing with the information regarding the criminal referrals. Was she in error in that note? Secretary BENTSEN. I certainly think she was. Senator SASSER. Now in a handwritten answer that the same Ms. Hanson wrote to prepare you for your testimony before the House Appropriations Committee, Ms. Hanson apparently suggested that you would say, and I quote: "I now believe that Ms. Hanson and Mr. Altman consulted with me * * *" that is, consulted with you, " * * in advance of the White House meeting of February 2nd, 1994, that was the subject of Mr. Altman's February 24 testimony." Now did Ms. Hanson's suggestion accurately reflect your true belief that they did consult with you? Secretary BENTSEN. Certainly not. I do not agree with that. I do not remember it that way at all. Senator SASSER. Have you had communications about this whole Madison Senator BOXER. Mr, Chairman, could I ask Senator Sasser to repeat his question? I think it is important that the Chairman hear that. Could you possibly repeat the question to the Treasury Secretary because I think that is a very important, crucial point.