August 3, 1994 - Part 1
August 3, 1994 - Part 1
(10:20:36) Secretary BENTSEN. Let me interrupt a minute about Jack DeVore, because that is a long-time friend. He is the kind of a fellow that you would not hesitate to make guardian of your children. Senator GRAMM. I guess people assume that we sit up here and ask questions and do not learn anything. One of the things I have learned is, if you are trying to run the Government, you want a few people that have some experience, that know what they are doing, and I think you were blessed by having him. Secretary BENTSEN. Thank you. Senator GRAMM. Now I want to go to the testimony of Ms. Hanson. Mr. Secretary, I know that a lot of this stuff never bubbled up to you, or if it did, it bubbled up at a time when you were doing 50 other things. One of the things I am also convinced of is that we can never, ever have the acting head of an agency like the RTC be a person who has line authority in the Executive Branch of Government. That must never happen again, and as long as I am here, given the ability under the Senate Rules for one Member to stop something, I intend to stop it. But Secretary Bentsen, you have worked with Ms. Hanson. She is your Counsel, the General Counsel, for the Department, so you know her pretty well? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Senator GRAMM. Now on September 29th, Ms. Hanson went to the White House. As far as we know that is the first meeting she had ever had where she went over to the White House to visit with someone as senior as Mr. Nussbaum and a handful of other people, There is conflicting testimony. I do not expect you to know who is 15 telling the, truth, but I want to ask you some questions related to what you might know or have feelings about. Secretary BENTSEN. All right. Senator GRAMM. Ms. Hanson says, under oath, that she was notified on behalf of Mr. Altman about these 9 referrals for criminal prosecution, and that Mr. Altman told her to go to the White House and tell Mr. Nussbaum. In fact, we also have another sworn statement in which Mr. Roelle says he was present in the room when she was told to communicate that information. None of these facts you know independently and we all understand that. But here is the point. Ms. Hanson is relatively young, she is relatively new on the job, and she is going to the White House to brief the President's Counsel on a criminal referral that has mentioned the President of the United States. She made, in her testimony, a major point of the fact that never, ever would there have been any possibility that she would have undertaken, on her own, that first time, to go to the White House for that meeting, had Roger Altman not told her to do it. I am not asking you to inject yourself into what is true and what is not true, but in your opinion, leaving everything else aside, do you believe, knowing her, knowing her position, knowing how the White House works and the Treasury works, do you believe it is likely that she would have initiated that contact without somebody telling her to do it? Secretary BENTSEN. That is an interesting question, Senator. Let me--she is a very competent, able person. She has a lot of self-confidence. I think that is possible, yes, possible. Senator GRAMM. You think it is possible that she, on her own initiative, without the clearance of anybody else, would have undertaken that activity? Secretary BENTSEN. I said possible. Senator GRAMM. Do you think it is likely? I know these are subtle distinctions, but I do think they are important. I think it is a fair question. Secretary BENTSEN. I do not really want to be the judge of that, Senator. Senator GRAMM. The recusal issue obviously has become a big issue. I have to admit, Mr. Secretary, in sitting here yesterday, and we sat here for 12 hours, I was stunned at our inability to get an answer out of Mr. Altman. I was stunned by the literally dozen clear contradictions. I want to read, from the front page of the Washington Post this morning, the following statement. This is an analysis article which appeared on the front page of the Post. Maybe you read it. Altman's statement about White House Treasury discussions on the Whitewater case triggered a flurry of hurried sessions at the White House, beginning that afternoon and continuing over the next several days. Senior officials, many of whom had participated in the very meetings Altman had failed to mention to the Senate, scrambled to determine what to do about his testimony.