August 3, 1994 - Part 1
August 3, 1994 - Part 1
(10:15:09) And I would like to get an indication as to what and how you intend to deal with that when you get an opportunity to review these materials. I think that is important and I would appreciate that. Secretary BENTSEN. Senator, I will be pleased to receive them. Senator DAMATO. We will send them to you. And I thank the Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR SARBANES Senator SARBANES. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary, welcome. Mr. Altman and Ms. Hanson directly contradict one another about on what basis she went to see Nussbaum and to report to him back at the end of September. Do you have any knowledge about that matter? Secretary BENTSEN. No, I did not. I did not have knowledge of it. 13 Senator SARBANES. And do you have any perceptions now on this issue of whether Altman tasked her to go or whether she went on her own? Secretary BENTSEN. No. What you have in this, Senator is a situation, things that happened over 5 to 10 months ago, and you obviously have different recollections by the parties involved. That is not surprising. Senator SARBANES. Now you met with Altman and Hanson, I take it, on the 1st of February, and Altman discussed with you that he was thinking of recusing himself? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct, Senator SARBANES. And then again you met with him the day before the hearing here on the 23rd of February? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Senator SARBANES. And again, I take it, the issue of recusal came up in your discussions with Altman? Secretary BENTSEN. Yes, I think it did. Senator SARBANES. Now he has indicated to us that you in effect counseled or advised him to recuse himself. Secretary BENTSEN. I understand that he does. Let me say this, I sympathized with him a great deal. I thought he was in a tough position. He might have taken that and interpreted it that way. But I also very clearly, and I do not remember any such specific recommendation, but I do, I do recall very definitely this. That I told him it was his decision to make. lt was his judgment to exercise. That I did not know the facts in that case, did not have it, and was in no position to make that determination or tell him what he should do. Senator SARBANES. Did he indicate to you, in the second meeting on the 23rd of February-he met with you on the 1st of February and then he went to that meeting at the White House where the recusal matter arose. He then met with you on the 23rd of February. At the second meeting, did he indicate anything about what had transpired at the White House meeting on the recusal, and whether he felt he had been put under pressure not to recuse himself at that meeting at the White House? Secretary BENTSEN. I do not remember his stating that to me. Senator SARBANES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR GRAMM Senator GRAMM. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Bentsen, I -want to ask you a couple of questions and then get Secretary BENTSEN. Well I was called Senator for a long time, and I accept that. Senator GRAMM. [continuing]. Fairly deeply into a couple. The Treasury Department has about how many employees? Just guess. Secretary BENTSEN. Well it is a guess, but it is a bunch. I think it is on the order of 160,000 people. 14 Senator GRAMM. How many people at the Treasury Department did you actually hire that were your people? I thought I remembered when you went over from the Senate secretary BENTSEN. Well I took Sam Sessions. Sam Sessions went over with me. Jack DeVore went over with me. Maurice Foley went over with me. Senator GRAMM. Would you say of the 160,000 that fewer than 10 were, quote, your people? Secretary BENTSEN. I think that is correct. Senator GRAMM. Mr. Altman was the President's appointment. While I am not in any way suggesting you were in any way unsupportive, he was not your nominee? Secretary BENTSEN. No, that is correct. Senator GRAMM. And the same would be true of Ms. Hanson? Secretary BENTSEN. Yes, that is right. Senator GRAMM. So basically in this 160,000 person agency, you have about 10 people that are your people, that came with you. Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Senator GRAMM. I would just like to say, having listened to Jack DeVore, and Jack is your Press Secretary, that as a person that I have worked with, and in some cases worked against, I think you were well- served by having a few gray hairs over in your Department. I was struck, yesterday, by