August 2, 1994 - Part 11
August 2, 1994 - Part 11
(01:15:24) Mr. ALTMAN. That's untrue, Senator. I answered the question that I was asked in the way that I understood it. Sometime be- tween calling Mr. McLarty the day before and bringing it up, maybe I decided, oh, no I going to discuss it. I think Han son added the talking point her own volition, I think she did,- 547 and it would have been natural because she wanted me to recuse myself I don't want to leave any doubt here. Yes, recusal came up; yes, it was an active topic of conversation. Yes, I brought it up. I just didn't have any long-term plan to do that and within 24 hours or less before the meeting, it wasn't my intention to do that. I'm not sure when between that and the actual bringing it up I decided but when I called Mr. McLarty, as he'll attest, I never mentioned recusal because as least when I called him, it wasn't my plan to do that. And I actually said to Mr. McLarty I'd like to come talk to you about these procedural alternatives. I know him very well, we're good friends, we talk a lot, I would have said I want to talk to you about recusal if that was my plan when I called him and I called him the day before. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes Senator GRAMM. Mr. Chairman, could I just make a point of information that's very relevant to this, and it will save us time. It's not a question, it's just a point of information that I think is very relevant. If that would be OK The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes yields for that purpose. Senator GRAMM. Would the Senator- The CHAIRMAN. Yes, be has yielded for that purpose. Senator GRAMM. On February 1 you had a meeting in Senator Bentsen's office in which you informed the Secretary that you had decided to recuse yourself. Mr. ALTMAN. I don't believe that's the case, Senator. Senator GRAMM. This is according to Jean Hanson's testimony. You also told Secretary Bentsen that you should notify the White House of your decision, and Jean Hanson said that she should accompany you. So you had a meeting, according to Jean Hanson, on February 1, the day before the White House meeting, in Secretary Bentsen's office in which you told Senator Bentsen that you were going to recuse yourself and you were going to tell the White ,,House. Then when you went to the White House, you carried with you a list of talking points, the last of which is that you're telling them that you're recusing yourself. And yet you say to a direct question, I'm talking about point blank yes or no, that this was all temporaneous. Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, first of all, I recall going to Secretary Bentsen's office and asking him, and this is the first time I asked him, what his advice was on recusal. When I went into his office, I didn't know what his advice was and frankly, I would have been very guided by his advice because that's the regard I have for him. So when I marched into his office, it wasn't to tell him I was going to recuse myself. It was to say what is your view on whether ought to recuse myself That's what I did that day. And I have recollection, I don't believe Secretary Bentsen does either, you can ask him tomorrow morning, of saying to him that I was now going to march over to the White House and announce that I was going to recuse myself He doesn't recall that and I don't recall it. If I have the right. The Chairman. Senator Sarbanes. Senator SARBANES. Thank you very much- Mr. Chairman. 548 My understanding is that these talking points, the last one which mentions recusal, for the meeting were prepared by Hanson; is that correct. Mr. ALTMAN. Ms. Hanson did prepare the talking points and I think she added the last one of her own volition. I could be wrong but that's just what I recall. Senator SARBANES. Well, but she worked the talking points for you, you didn't work up the talking points yourself, did you? ALTMAN. No, that's true. Yes, sir. Senator SARBANES. She in effect was the one who put together the talking points for the purpose of this meeting? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes. she did. Senator SARBANES. Now, it is the case that you had been debating this question of recusing yourself; isn't that correct? ALTMAN. I'd been seeking advice on it. senator SARBANES. For what, a number of days or weeks? Mr. ALTMAN. No, no, just 1 or 2 days. It didn't even enter my mind until I saw that Ricki Tigert issues come up in terms of the you know, the pressure she came under to recuse herself in ad.' vance, and I think that was just a couple of days before February 2 but I'm not positive.