August 2, 1994 - Part 9
August 2, 1994 - Part 9
(22:30:30) The next paragraph says, "I have spoken with the Secretary an seems to me with Bernie Nussbaum and Cliff Sloan." Now, it see a the reasonable view of that is that was with respect to the meeting that bad taken place just the day before. Then the next paragraph "I have asked Bill Roelle to keep me informed." Of course, I had just, in effect, informed you all about the referrals 2 , 3 before, as I recall. "Is there anything else you think we should doing." I know how you're trying to parse this memo, but I agree with it. Anyhow, what's next? Mr. ALTMAN. You asked me about Mr. Ickes's comment in his' de deposition. Senator SARBANES. What about the Sloan-tbe Hanson conversation with Sloan about The New York Times fax and bow would Hanson have known that but for talking with you? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't know, Senator, but I don't know what's wrong with sending a fax of a press clipping. Senator SARBANES. No, I didn't say anything was wrong with sending the fax. I didn't see anything wrong--how did-I'm trying to get at Hanson 's credibility given the direct contradiction between her testimony and yours. How would Hanson have known to call Sloan the next day about the fax if she didn't learn about the fax from you because the fax was something you sent to Nussbaum back in March 1993; is that correct? Mr. ALTMAN. That's what the fax-yes, that's what the fax suggests, yes. Senator SARBANES. Before Hanson took over as General Counsel at the Treasury? Mr. ALTMAN. I can't remember exactly when Jean arrived, Senator SARBANES. She came in June. Mr. ALTMAN. All right. It could have been. Senator SARBANES. How would she have known to call Sloan about this fax if she hadn't been talking with you? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't know the answer to that, Senator. Senator SARBANES. What about Roelle and the telephone conversation at the October 6 meeting? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't remember that. Senator SARBANES. Ickes's report on the February 2 meeting? Mr. ALTMAN. That one I have a very strong view on, Senator, and that is incorrect. That is not what happened, and I believe Mr. Ickes, when he comes before you, whenever that is tomorrow, Will not say what I gather you have. Senator SARBANES. What makes you believe that? Mr. ALTMAN. Just because it's incorrect. Senator SARBANES. What about Williams? Mr. ALTMAN. Well, I don't think that's very meaningful. I agree that the conversation took place. I just think I called Ickes to set it up and I had it primarily with him. And she thinks I set it up with her, but the conversation took place, I don't dispute that. I think that's a minor issue as to whether I bad it the way I say or she says. It took place. Senator SARBANES. She says that you said-did you say your recollection, specifically, was I want to come over in person and 503 have a meeting to announce this? I don't remember if he said I want to come over in person. I think he said A want to talk to a few people, can you get some people together and I maybe said west wing office or he could have named-why would Maggie Williams say this if it hadn't happened? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, again, the conversation or the essence of it, did happen. I'm not disputing that. I think I happened to call Mr, Ickes and primarily had the conversation with him, but I did have the conversation, so I'm not disputing that. Senator SARBANES. My time has expired. The CHAIRMAN. Senator D'Amato is prepared to yield you 2 additional minutes. Senator SARBANES, No, I'm finished. The CHAIRMAN. Senator D'Amato. Senator D'AMATO. Mr. Chairman, if I might, this will take us back to the question of that meeting on the 3rd and whether the meeting came up as a result of talking to Maggie Williams and/or Ickes. There was a meeting. Is that not correct, Mr. Altman? Mr. ALTMAN. I'm sorry, Senator. Senator D'AMATO. Whether or not the meeting came about as a result of our conversation, your contact first with Mr. Ickes or with Ms. Williams, there did come a time, right, on or about February 3, the day after your decision where you went home and you meditated about recusal, then you went over to the White House. You had called earlier. You missed Jean Hanson for lunch. She kind of was one step behind. But we know there came a meeting and af that. meeting there were at least Williams, Ickes, and Eggleston. Hanson got there later. Is that not a fact?