August 2, 1994 - Part 9
August 2, 1994 - Part 9
(21:35:42) Mr. ALTMAN. I just thought it was an unwise thing to be asking about. Senator HATCH. Basically it would look like pressure. Mr. ALTMAN. It could be interpreted that way, yes. Senator HATCH. And in fact, you said to Mr. Steiner words to the effect that those guys at the White House must be crazy to try and fire Mr. Stephens; right? 489 Mr. ALTMAN. I don't remember my exact words, but I told them I thought it was an unwise thing to have done. Senator HATCH, That pretty well sums it up. Mr. ALTMAN. The essence of what you said is what I felt. Senator HATCH. And you were referring to Mr. Ickes and Mr. Stephanopoulos; isn't that so, when you made that statement? Mr. ALTMAN. Not as human beings, I have the highest regard for them. I thought bringing that subject up Senator HATCH. I'm not trying to get you in trouble. 1 want to get the facts down as far as I can, Were you referring to anyone else besides Ickes and Stephanopoulos. Mr. ALTMAN. No, sir. Senator HATCH. Now, Mr. Altman, could I please ask you to read a page from our diary. It's dated January 1 1, 1994, if you have that handy. We have a blowup here if you could read it from there, I don't know. Why don't you bold that up right here. Can you read it? It's pretty bard to read from there, Mr. ALTMAN. If you put that down, I'll read it right here. I want to point to it so just put it right Senator HATCH. Well, here. If you could, the part I'm asking for is-why don't you give him a copy. Mr. ALTMAN. I think I have the relevant pieces here. Senator HATCH. OK Well, if you'll read it, then Mr. ALTMAN. I have it, Senator. Senator HATCH. If you would read it for me. Mr. ALTMAN. I'm sorry, you want me to read it out loud? Senator HATCH. I don't think you have to read the whole page. .Why don't you just read where 'Maggie told me Hillary Clinton .was 'paralyzed." You don't need to even say that. Go down to Maggie's I strong inference." Mr ALTMAN. "Maggie's strong inference was that the White Ouse was trying to negotiate the scope of an Independent Counsel with Reno and having enormous difficulty." Senator HATCH. President Clinton asked Attorney General Reno appoint a Special Counsel to investigate the Madison/White water matter on January 12, 1994, if you'll recall. Mr. ALTMAN. I don't remember the exact date. Senator HATCH. The day before the President requested a Special Counsel I be named, you made that entry in your diary, basically strong influence was that the White House was trying to negotiate the scope of an Independent Counsel with Reno and have enormous difficulty." ALTMAN. Although, Senator I have since been advised that's true, and I drew the wrong inference. Senator HATCH. But that's what you wrote in your diary at the ALTMAN. That's true, but I do want to emphasize I drew an nee, Senator HATCH. But your source from whom you drew the inference was none other than Maggie Williams? Mr. ALTMAN. That's true, but I did draw the inference. It wasn't direct quote. Senator HATCH. And she was the First Lady's Chief of Staff? ALTMAN. Yes, sir. 490 Senator HATCH. The circumstances under which you developed this information occurred during a meeting you had with Ms. Wil- liams on Health Care, as I recall. Mr. ALTMAN. Well, my best recollection, because I normally interacted with Maggie on Health Care matters was that these comments were one set of asides to me during a Health Care meetin That's what I believe happened. Senator HATCH. But you say that notation in your diary is you believe to be untrue at this point. Mr. ALTMAN. No. I'm just saying Mr. Cutler looked into this matter and in his report he specifically references this, and he says that he found no evidence at all that that indeed was being done, that the White House was trying to negotiate the scope. I just defer to his report. Senator HATCH. On page 144 of your deposition, it says that you make the quote, then, you were asked the question, "What was the source of your information for that entry?" and then your answer was, "I believe it was Maggie Williams." But you're saying Mr. Cutler Mr. ALTMAN. No, the source of this was Maggie Williams. Something she said caused me to draw the inference. I'm simply saying that Mr. Cutler, in recent weeks during his investigation, specifically addressed himself to the question of whether, indeed, there were negotiations on the scope of the Independent Counsel's responsibilities, and he concluded there were not. Senator HATCH. Let me draw your attention to the words "strong inference." Didn't she or Maggie Williams convey to you that the White House was trying to negotiate the scope of the Independent Counsel with Reno and that the White House was having enormous difficulty or tremendous difficulty in doing so? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, that's the inference I drew, yes. I'm just simply saying Senator HATCH. She conveyed that to you. Mr. ALTMAN. That's the inference I drew. I did. I drew that inference. I'm just saying it has since been evaluated, and Mr. Cutler's report is clear on the extent to which it didn't happen,