August 2, 1994 - Part 9
August 2, 1994 - Part 9
(21:30:36) So I was in that position in terms of all these congressional inquiries and all the staff-to-staff inquiries, congressional staff to RTC, so tbis-I just thought if we're giving all this, if we're in a position of explaining these procedures to the Congress and to some extent to the media, it would be reasonable to explain them also to the White House. Now that was what I was thinking. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Assuming, Mr. Alt-man, that at you took ethical steps to guard against potential Ica] conflicts, were you concerned by the time of the February 2 meeting that your two hats might create an appearance of conflict of interest or violation of the illegal exclusion of Treasury Department involvement in case-spe- cific matters coming before the Oversight Board of the RTC? Mr. ALTMAN. I always try to be sensitive to ethical matters. I think I have a good record in that respect, and as you know, none of the Treasury personnel, including me, violated any ethical guidelines in this whole matter. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Well, that's a conclusion and I think that's part of what this hearing is all about, Mr. Altman. But in that regard, I'm trying to get to your state of mind with regard to the dual role that you held, and my question is whether your decisionmaking with regard to recusal, with regard to these meetings, with regard to anything having to do with Madison take into account the confluence, it you will, the two hats, the two roles that you played, you bad two jobs and they both had different kinds of overlapping-did it take into account the dual nature of your employment? Mr. ALTMAN. I did my best to do so. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Was your dual role considered or discussed in connection with the recusal decision? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't quite follow you, Senator. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. When you had the discussions with regard to your decision whether or not to recuse yourself in these matters, was the dual role that you played, the two jobs that you had, was that discussed or considered? Mr. ALTMAN. Well, again, I was aware of that every single day of the week, so I suppose the answer in effect is yes, but I wanted to be careful I didn't have a separate analysis or discussion or legal Opinion. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. So you did consider it, but you did not have a discussion about the duality of your employment and bow that would affect your recusal decision or Mr. ALTMAN. I don't remember any specific discussion on that Point Just before February 2, 1 do not. MOSELEY-BRAUN. Do you believe, Mr. Altman, that what you believe in that regard might have been different if you had if you knew then what you know now with regard to the overlapping? 488 Mr. ALTMAN. I would have done it sooner. I didn't, you know I didn't think about it until the very end of January, or the 1st of February because of the Ricki Tigert matter, so it wasn't on my mind for a great deal of time. But when I began to think about it I then took 3 weeks to make that decision and I should have taken 1 day. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Well, I think that will I'll conclude my questions and reserve the remainder of my questions for the second round, if we ever get to it this year. Senator SARBANES. Thank you very much. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Senator Hatch. Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.,- Mr. Altman, I'm going to ask you about a telephone conversation you had with Harold Iles and George Stephanopoulos. It was on February 25. Do you remember having that telephone conversation? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, Senator, I do. Senator HATCH. In that call, according to your testimony in the deposition Mr. Ickes and Mr. Stephanopoulos raised with you the manner of the RTC's hiring of Jay Stephens as Outside Counsel in the Madison Guaranty case; right; Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, Senator Senator HATCH. They were both very upset by the fact that the RTC had actually retained the Pillsbury, Madison & Sutro law firm with Jay Stephens at that time or, at least, Jay Stephens? Mr. ALTMAN. Well, that was my sense es Senator HATCH. And they asked you how they had been hired; isn't that right? Mr. ALTMAN. In essence, yes. Senator HATCH. You understood from this telephone call that Mr. Ickes and Mr. Ste phanopoulos would have preferred that Jay Stephens not be hired nor working on the Madison Guaranty matter. That was, in essence, what you understood as well? Mr. ALTMAN. I understood the were unhappy that he had Senator HATCH. Sure. After this is telephone conversation, then did you speak about it then with Mr. Joshua Steiner; is that right? Mr. ALTMAN. At some point that day I did, yes, Senator. Senator HATCH. That's what he says. And you told Mr. Steiner you thought Mr. Ickes and Mr. Stephanopoulos were unwise to have called you about Jay Stephens. Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir, Senator HATCH. That's your own deposition, Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, sir. Senator HATCH. And the reason you thought that the telephone call was unwise is because it could reasonably have been construed as pressure on the RTC to get rid of Jay Stephens; right?