August 2, 1994 - Part 8
August 2, 1994 - Part 8
(19:50:19) Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Exactly right. As alter ego to the Secretary of Treasury , when you took the job with the Treasury were you aware that the Oversight Board and, therefore, the Treasury Secretary was specifically excluded from involvement in case-specific matters? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I don't know if I was aware of that at the beginning but I became aware of it at some point. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. When you took the job at RTC, did you ask the General Counsel of either the RTC or Treasury for any analysis of the legal relationship between Treasury and the RTC, and if not, why not? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't believe I did, Senator. It just did not occur to me to do so. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. When you too the job with the RTC, did you seek any advice regarding the potential for conflict between the two positions that you held, and if not, why not? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, as you know, there is a large le legal staff at the FDIC and there is a large legal staff at the RTC, and I think 485 it's a legitimate point for me to say that I naturally enough relied on them as far as legal matters were concerned. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Did you seek their specific advice with regard to the potential for conflict between the two agencies or the two positions that you held? Mr. ALTMAN. Well, I was-the answer I think is no in the sense of whether I on a particular date asked for an analysis. I don't believe I did that, but I did believe on a day-in and day-out basis that's what those legal resources were for, among other things. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Have you subsequently sought advice regarding the legal relationship between these two agencies? Mr. ALTMAN. Since this entire controversy blew up, I have, yes. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. And when did you get that advice? Mr. ALTMAN. Just in recent weeks. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Have you subsequently sought advice regarding the potential for legal or ethical conflict between the two positions that you held? Mr. ALTMAN. Well, again, Senator, I may be wrong, but that's what I think the legal staffs are there to help me do, so I would expect that they would advise me if I was getting into a gray area or some area I shouldn't be in. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. But you never got an opinion from anyone regarding the possible conflict between the two positions that you held even subsequent, even recently? Mr. ALTMAN. I never sought a formal opinion, no. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Did you take any steps to guard against potential ethical conflicts or the appearance of such conflicts? Mr. ALTMAN. I tried to conduct myself every single day, Senator, that way, and you know the results of the Office of Government Ethics Report which concluded, if I can say so, that there were no ethical violations. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. In your capacity as RTC CEO on February 1, 1994, Ellen Kulka, the RTC General Counsel, briefed you on Madison matters and I think it's fair to say that she briefed you on the status of civil investigation and the difficulties that the RTC would have in completing that investigation prior to the expiration of the statute of limitations. Is that a fair Mr. ALTMAN. No, no, it's not. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN What was the substance of the briefin ? Mr. ALTMAN. The substance of the briefing was the procedural alternatives which the RTC faced as the statute of limitations approached, as to what they were and what these terms meant. I bad never heard of a tolling agreement before that day and she took me--she didn't say a thing to me about the outlook for the case or the inner workings of the case. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. But you did understand from Mr. Kulka at the time that there was a time pressure on the completion of the investigation with regard to Madison; is that correct? ALTMAN. I knew what the then-statute of limitations dead line was. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN The very next day, Mr. Altman you went to the White House with Jean Hanson to meet with Mr. 486 Nussbaum, Mr. Eggleston, Ms. Williams, and Mr. Ickes. Why didn' you have Ms. Kulka join you rather than Ms. Hanson? Mr. ALTMAN. Perhaps I should have, but Ms. Hanson was helping me out on a variety of matters, including some RTC matters, and I asked her to come with me. I thought I should have a lawyer present. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. But there was no reason that you specifically-that you excluded Ms. Kulka from the meeting? Mr. ALTMAN. No, Senator. Senator MOSELLY-BRAUN. You've repeatedly testified that you di with, Madison case should be dealt rected Madison should be dealt with in an identical fashion relative to any other case. This is in your conversations with Ms. Kulka and others. How did you ensure that Madison would be handled like any other RTC case? Mr, ALTMAN. I instructed that it be. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Excuse me. Mr. ALTMAN. I instructed that it be so. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. But at the same time as interim RTC CEO, it is not our custom, is it, to join with the General Counsel of Treasury to brief potential parties to civil litigation on the work of the statute of limitations, is it? Mr. ALTMAN. As I said in my statement, Senator, I was at that time receiving numerous inquiries from the Congress and from the media. We had at least 7 requests of the RTC staff from congressional staff. I had several letters directly from Members of Congress. And we were responding to those and in order to respond to them, of course, I had to understand what these procedural alternatives were.