August 2, 1994 - Part 8
August 2, 1994 - Part 8
(19:40:24) Senator DOMENICI. Let me finish that thought. You can answer this one. I believe you were expected to stay there for some very special reason, and the notion in your mind that you weren't going to do anything seemed to me to be rather irrelevant to the people that were kind of depending on you to stay there, and you can answer that in a minute. Let me tell you the last one. It is incredible to me that you come before us tonight and say that this recusal had nothing to do with Madison. I mean, that is so inconceivable when everybody is saying ,.the whole idea of recusal had to do with Whitewater and Madison. And you're coming before us and saying it bad nothing to do with It me on that one, I'll give you 8 quotes from people Now if you pus that are your pod friends who Say that's what it was all about. You can start with that one if you'd like, but I must tell you that I just don't believe that you ought to come before us and as if you 'really have never, never with reference to RTC done anything that Is More than poor judgment. I believe you intentionally stayed on for some reason. Now with that, perhaps you can talk a little bit and then I have Couple of questions for you. Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I think it's largely a factual matter if not outright factual matter that I never played any role of any kind 482 on an investigation or any case at any time. I think the RTC people who have come before you, Mr. Ryan, Ms. Kulka, and others who testified right here under oath have said that. Senator DOMENICI. Did you get my point? Why do you deny that people in the White House wanted you to stay on this job? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, as you know, I've said it before today. Lees look at what I did. Senator DOMENICI. No, I'm asking you a question. Do you deny that people in high places in the White House wanted you to stay on in this acting job? Do you deny that? Mr. ALTMAN. I can't speak for what they were thinking, Senator. I told them on February 2, not once but twice, that I wouldn't be making any of these decisions. I was unequivocal. Isn't that what you would have wanted me to do? Senator DOMENICI. Listen, Mr. Altman, I'm not good at going through these depositions, and all, I leave that to my good friend the trial lawyer over there from Alabama. When I was about 30 years old, I tried a lot of cases, but I forgot about all that crossexamination stuff, but I can guarantee you that the record is replete with your peers saying clearly that they wanted you to stay on, and then the record's replete that you changed your mind and stayed on. Now, frankly Mr. ALTMAN. Senator. Senator DOMENICI. It is replete. Mr. ALTMAN. Did any of that have an ounce of impact on the Madison Guaranty case? Senator DOMENICI. I understand that that's what Mr. ALTMAN. That is the salient point, Senator. Senator DOMENICI. That's the salient point as you see it, Mr. Altman, but you are here because we are pondering where the truth lies in terms of what you people have been saying. Now this business of no foul, no harm or no harm, no foul just doesn't sell with me. That's your theory. No foul, no harm, no foul, but I submit you should have gotten out of that much earlier than you did, if you ever should have taken the job. Mr. ALTMAN. Well, first of all, as to recusal, I agree with you. I started thinking about it around the end of January, or the 1st of February. I have recused myself on February 25, roughly 3 weeks later, I should have done it right off the bat. But I do think the most important thing is that I played no role and explicitly affirmed to the RTC people that I was to play no role in this matter. I took the step of saying to Ellen Kulka, more than once and there were people there when I did it, I'm not going to be making any decisions on this case. You're going to be making them. That was the way we always did it, but I affirmed it in this case. And then I went to the White House and said I'm not going to be making any decisions on this case, Ellen Kulka is going to be making them, and they all understood that and Mr. Steiner's diary, and I have mixed reactions to that, but Mr. Steiner's diary says ever one understood at the end of the meeting that he wouldn't be making any decisions on the case. Senator DOMENICI. Let me ask you so I won't have to go through these, but if you like, I will. Are you willing to admit to this Com mittee that de recusal was all about Whitewater and Madison? 483 Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, the statement I made earlier was that recusal had nothing to do with the RTC's investigation of Madison Guaranty. It had nothing to do with the investigation and I believe that to be true, I firmly believe that. Senator DOMENICI. Did it not have everything to do with people in the White House wanting you to stay on because of Whitewater? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator Senator DOMENICI. Can you answer that question? Mr. ALTMAN. I can't speak to what was in their minds. I've, obviously, read the transcripts of their testimony , and we've all read those. What I had to concern myself with, what is the right thing to do with this investigation in the case, and the right thing to do was to play no role in it, to be sure I played no role at all, and as you know, I did not. Senator DOMENICI. Now, Mr. Altman, are you willing now to admit to us that, as a matter of fact, you bad made up your mind before you went to that meeting at the White House with 6 or 7 people headed by Counselor Nussbaum?